[360] - What the AWR rating really means...

[rboochard]

Here is some info from NCAA 09. I know everything in Madden is not identical to NCAA but if you go to recruiting and look at one prospect it lists what each attribute does. Here is what is says for PRC and AWR when I was looking at a CB.

PRC - How well the defender reads run/pass as the ball is hiked
AWR - How smart the player is to what is going on during the play

Now whether these actually do what they say is a question mark in my mind. On another note just because a roster guy says PRC is the new defensive equivelent to AWR does not mean he is right. Sure he works for EA and that is what he thinks it is but did he actually do the programming to decide what each attribute affects? No. Does the guy who programs each rating to affect certain things even know exactly what it affects on the field? Maybe.

With so many variables it's hard to nail down what certain attributes actually do on the field and we also have to realize that just because an EA rep says something works a certain way that does not make it gospel.

[bigdawg21]

Originally Posted by sgibs7

i found what i was looking for...John Lynch in madden 09 was rated a 95 OVR with 98 AWR...Madden 09 John Lynch is rated a 92 OVR and 84 AWR...so your telling me that a veteran of this league for what like 15 years or something got "dumber" in the off season. That just makes no sense to drop his AWR down 14 pts if AWR matter that much it would have never been dropped that much...they simply needed to lower his OVR because hes not a "95" anymore and the only way by doing that with keeping the ratings he deserves is lowering his AWR.

Lol. Thats funny but that is a good observation. To me it seems like awarness just matter for the CPU. Cuz sometimes I drop linemen into coverage and they always watch the ball go right overless there heads and stuff. A lot of times unless U user control the player they will just let the ball go over there head if they have low awarness or they will guard another receiver if he gets to close. I think awarness is during the play. And play recognition is before the snap to recognize what play it is. Cuz I know if u play online and or turn the weapons on it only helps if u want to be able to see their play. Why don't u lower awarness to 0 and play recognition to 100 and see what happens.

[DHes23]

Originally Posted by Poetique

Yes, the CPU cheats, yes, EA themselves has confirmed that it will occasionally cheat (this was a few years ago, however), and no I don't care if you believe me.

Also, what you mentioned is not the kind of cheating that the previous "discussion" was about...

The most obvious form of cheating (and the prime topic of discussion at the time) the CPU exhibits is its occasional "rapid catch up" ability when you get past them on a pass play.

One could make the argument that the CPU takes perfect angles and users don't, which was DHes' point of view, which is valid enough. Except when you're running in a straight damn line, your "angle" really means dip. The fastest way to catch up is to run straight, period. Whereas the CPU can seemingly catch up while they're controlling a nearby defender, the best the player can usually accomplish after taking control is somewhat less than what the CPU was managing to do.

But the entire subject isn't worth dredging up anyway, and I've personally taken the agree to disagree stance on the matter. Some people agree with me, some don't. And that's just fine with me because all that matters is what happens in my game.

The whole CPU stops everything you do but you can't do much of anything to stop the CPU side of things is an entirely different matter. Imo you could call it cheating, but I'd say it's more like the CPU taking off it's "play like a person" mask and revealing the fact to you that it does know everything that could happen as a result of what you do, and it's not going to pretend that it doesn't anymore. Or basically like you said... the A.I. just starts playing like what it is... A.I.

You just said it yourself. EA admitted to it "a few years ago" now can you tell me why it stopped being a hot topic when it comes to the flaws of madden? I know. Its because the AI doesn't actually cheat anymore.

Your last paragraph is true but the thing about the AI running faster hasn't happened since 06. You say you don't care if people agree with you but the thing about it is that no one has agreed with you about that, at all. I agree that when the AI gets down it bends things making diving tackles that save TDs and gets picks that would normally be swats or completions. But to have a 91 speed safety run a 92+ speed RB down in a straight line does NOT happen anymore. They fixed that after 06 when a popular site triangulated the distance that a saftey ran to defend a fade route that was thrown x amount of yards and they came up with Ed Reed making plays on deep balls that he would need something like a 115 speed to do. Thats why throwing deep has been easier than ever in recent years.

[Poetique]

Originally Posted by DHes23

You just said it yourself. EA admitted to it "a few years ago" now can you tell me why it stopped being a hot topic when it comes to the flaws of madden? I know. Its because the AI doesn't actually cheat anymore.

Your last paragraph is true but the thing about the AI running faster hasn't happened since 06. You say you don't care if people agree with you but the thing about it is that no one has agreed with you about that, at all. I agree that when the AI gets down it bends things making diving tackles that save TDs and gets picks that would normally be swats or completions. But to have a 91 speed safety run a 92+ speed RB down in a straight line does NOT happen anymore. They fixed that after 06 when a popular site triangulated the distance that a saftey ran to defend a fade route that was thrown x amount of yards and they came up with Ed Reed making plays on deep balls that he would need something like a 115 speed to do. Thats why throwing deep has been easier than ever in recent years.

I know why it's not talked about as well.

Because most of us don't consider it to be a big enough problem to continue discussing it. It has been discussed, and it has at least been improved, and considering how lazy EA is it honestly isn't worth the effort to keep pressing the matter.

There's no reason for it to be a hot topic when there are other things going on in Madden that are game breaking issues.

Just because it's not a hot topic doesn't mean it all of a sudden disappeared, nor does it mean it's not a problem.

Hell, the fact that the custom play creator still hasn't returned to Madden, the lack of chain gangs, and the lack of a half time show are also things a few people consider problems, but they aren't hot topics. Does that mean they're not problems or that they don't exist? No.

But just as I said before, your logic is completely unreasonable imo and I really have no interest in trying to change it nor do I have any interest in your opinion on the matter. For that matter you're rather pig-headed about it in general anyway, so it's almost not worth speaking to you at all (for example, you claim no one agrees with me, when in actuality someone agreed in the last thread... but of course you've forgotten about that because your own ego is continuing to reassure you that you're right, which is an opinion you're welcome to have, but I don't care to have such crap forced on me). The best we're going to get out of this is agreeing to disagree. Why you have such a problem with that I don't know, but if you're attempting to change my mind let me just go ahead and save you the energy and tell you that you cannot and will not.

I'd love to start a whole nother debate about your comment that throwing deep has been easier than ever in recent years... which is extremely laughable in my opinion (literally, I laughed when I read that).

In fact I'm not sure if its even worth ATTEMPTING to deep ball to receivers without a speed weapon... unless you abuse spec catching, they generally have no chance of being able to run fast enough to get open for a deep catch, even if the CB covering them is supposed to be slower than they are, heh. Hell, I've got friends who hate Madden 08 just because it's so hard to throw a bunch of long bombs when that's what they've been used to in the past.

But obviously we have different opinions on that matter (and obviously you know you're right, lol...), and I'm going to be assume you'd be just as pig-headed in that debate as you have this one, so yet again an agreement to disagree is all that's worth acknowledging. I'm sure you'll probably proceed to try to prove your correctness regardless of that, but rest assured, I won't be responding to it. I'm probably more likely to talk the wall in front of me into stepping aside than I am likely to get anything through your thick skull.

[sgibs7]

it has never been easier to throw deep as it was in madden 08....are you kidding me with the run n' gun trips te skinny post route...honestly you could make that deep route with philip rivers and vincent jackson and be wide open...

[Poetique]

Originally Posted by sgibs7

it has never been easier to throw deep as it was in madden 08....are you kidding me with the run n' gun trips te skinny post route...honestly you could make that deep route with philip rivers and vincent jackson and be wide open...

Ok let me be more specific...

Throwing in relevance to not exploiting stupid A.I. or glitching, as in... making a throw deep just because it was a smart play, or because the receiver is fast, as opposed to repeatedly exploiting plays that the CPU can't seem to cover.

I agree, it's much easier to throw deep now if you find a specific play the AI has problems with and just keep using it. Although that's still not a good thing imo, as that just means the A.I. needs better programming, and "glitches" need to be fixed.

Believe it or not there are about 20 of us who still make some effort to play the game the way its meant to be played, as opposed to spending all our time finding plays that work too often or finding glitches.

[KrazyJvilleD]

people still think play recognition has only to do with run/pass ability after the snap... NOT TRUE..

besides me already saying what the official ratings guy said about play recognition being the new defensive awareness... think about this:

even tho half the players with the smart weapon cant use them online, what was its purpose? the purpose was to be able to read the routes the WR's were running... Now ask yourself this, if you know the route the WR is running, dont you think it becomes EASIER for you to jump the route and react to the play? that is why play recognition is the new awareness... They dont have to necessarily have to have their lightbulb light up, they jump routes better hence having higher awareness but its all due to their play recognition rating.

[sgibs7]

Originally Posted by Poetique

Ok let me be more specific...

Throwing in relevance to not exploiting stupid A.I. or glitching, as in... making a throw deep just because it was a smart play, or because the receiver is fast, as opposed to repeatedly exploiting plays that the CPU can't seem to cover.

I agree, it's much easier to throw deep now if you find a specific play the AI has problems with and just keep using it. Although that's still not a good thing imo, as that just means the A.I. needs better programming, and "glitches" need to be fixed.

Believe it or not there are about 20 of us who still make some effort to play the game the way its meant to be played, as opposed to spending all our time finding plays that work too often or finding glitches.

i mean thats just not the wawy to win ball games...thats why your so disgruntled...you will turn to the darkside eventually muahahha

[Poetique]

Originally Posted by sgibs7

i mean thats just not the wawy to win ball games...thats why your so disgruntled...you will turn to the darkside eventually muahahha

Meh, nah no thanks.

That's why I pretty much just limit myself to playing with friends. Every now and then I'll play just some random person, but the minute I start seeing them glitching or abusing problems with the A.I., I quit caring about winning and just play for the sake of execution. If I play and execute well Vs. glitches/cheesers, I consider it a win, regardless of the score.

[sgibs7]

ok well tell me this...when you run a play in a game do you run a play that you know will not work? the reason you know it wont work is because you have run it a million times and it fails. At the same time do you run a play that you know works because you have run it a million times and it succeeds. Im gonna say your answer to that is yes...and well sorry bud but thats taking advantage of the AI and "cheasing" the thing is if you knew how to "cheese" you would play the way us tourny ballers do.

[DHes23]

Originally Posted by Poetique

I know why it's not talked about as well.

Because most of us don't consider it to be a big enough problem to continue discussing it. It has been discussed, and it has at least been improved, and considering how lazy EA is it honestly isn't worth the effort to keep pressing the matter.

There's no reason for it to be a hot topic when there are other things going on in Madden that are game breaking issues.

Just because it's not a hot topic doesn't mean it all of a sudden disappeared, nor does it mean it's not a problem.

Hell, the fact that the custom play creator still hasn't returned to Madden, the lack of chain gangs, and the lack of a half time show are also things a few people consider problems, but they aren't hot topics. Does that mean they're not problems or that they don't exist? No.

But just as I said before, your logic is completely unreasonable imo and I really have no interest in trying to change it nor do I have any interest in your opinion on the matter. For that matter you're rather pig-headed about it in general anyway, so it's almost not worth speaking to you at all (for example, you claim no one agrees with me, when in actuality someone agreed in the last thread... but of course you've forgotten about that because your own ego is continuing to reassure you that you're right, which is an opinion you're welcome to have, but I don't care to have such crap forced on me). The best we're going to get out of this is agreeing to disagree. Why you have such a problem with that I don't know, but if you're attempting to change my mind let me just go ahead and save you the energy and tell you that you cannot and will not.

I'd love to start a whole nother debate about your comment that throwing deep has been easier than ever in recent years... which is extremely laughable in my opinion (literally, I laughed when I read that).

In fact I'm not sure if its even worth ATTEMPTING to deep ball to receivers without a speed weapon... unless you abuse spec catching, they generally have no chance of being able to run fast enough to get open for a deep catch, even if the CB covering them is supposed to be slower than they are, heh. Hell, I've got friends who hate Madden 08 just because it's so hard to throw a bunch of long bombs when that's what they've been used to in the past.

But obviously we have different opinions on that matter (and obviously you know you're right, lol...), and I'm going to be assume you'd be just as pig-headed in that debate as you have this one, so yet again an agreement to disagree is all that's worth acknowledging. I'm sure you'll probably proceed to try to prove your correctness regardless of that, but rest assured, I won't be responding to it. I'm probably more likely to talk the wall in front of me into stepping aside than I am likely to get anything through your thick skull.

So I'm pig-headed and egotistical because I know I'm right and will not be changing my mind?

But you admit to doing the exact same thing. Yet its okay for you because you try to feed your ego by belittling me, or at least attempting to, by trying to sound smart.

No one here wants to hear about your laughable opinions that you literally laugh at:

"which is extremely laughable in my opinion (literally, I laughed when I read that)."

I'm sure nobody wants to hear this:

"But obviously we have different opinions on that matter (and obviously you know you're right, lol...), and I'm going to be assume you'd be just as pig-headed in that debate as you have this one, so yet again an agreement to disagree is all that's worth acknowledging. I'm sure you'll probably proceed to try to prove your correctness regardless of that, but rest assured, I won't be responding to it. I'm probably more likely to talk the wall in front of me into stepping aside than I am likely to get anything through your thick skull."

When you could have said this and people may have read it:

"We think differently when it comes to this. You think you are right and will try to prove it but I don't want to continue talking about it."

Isn't that easier? No one cares that you can sound smart on the internet. Anyone can and the ones that try to, like you, sound stupid because everyone else doesn't care.

So continue to feed you ego by using words no one cares about.

[sgibs7]

^^^^^ thank you

[DHes23]

Originally Posted by sgibs7

^^^^^ thank you

Lol anytime. I bet he goes against his word and replies. He can't look stupid on the internet. Oh no its the end of the world!

[Poetique]

Originally Posted by sgibs7

ok well tell me this...when you run a play in a game do you run a play that you know will not work? the reason you know it wont work is because you have run it a million times and it fails. At the same time do you run a play that you know works because you have run it a million times and it succeeds. Im gonna say your answer to that is yes...and well sorry bud but thats taking advantage of the AI and "cheasing" the thing is if you knew how to "cheese" you would play the way us tourny ballers do.

I've yet to find a play that "I know will not work." Given you call the right plays against the right defense, and have a half decent ability to execute plays, there isn't such a play (at least in the tiny world of those of us who actually know how to play correctly). But I guess the problem with you "tourny ballers" is that you spend so much time trying to figure out plays that work by either glitches or exploiting problems with the A.I. that you probably can't actually execute plays very well. I suppose that makes perfect sense actually...

By that same token, the only reason my answer to your question would be yes is because like I said, I havn't found a play that flat out doesn't work. There are definitely a few plays that work better for the kind of offense I run, but I don't sit there and go "oh, the CPU can't cover this play, let me use it all the time!" Quite frankly I have an easy enough time beating up the CPU without sitting there doing crap like that.

And for the record, I know how to "cheese." It's not that hard, especially in 08 with the ridiculous spec catching. But instead of sitting there playing for the sake of exploiting the AI, I'd rather sit ther