Can Halo Infinite MP bring new life to the Arena Shooter Genre.

Anything is possible. Things trend in and out. Maybe Halo Infinite may shift the trend and maybe it won't. It all the depends on the timing and if the market is ready or open to a shift. I can't say with any certainty which way it is going to go.

Lolno. It will be dead within a month like 4 and 5 were. You can really tell who never played Halo 2 and 3 when you see threads like this.

Yeah I think it can. Haven’t had a chance to play the beta but what I saw and heard about it was pretty promising. Really looking forward to playing it myself.

I feel the same, I want it to turn the trend personally. But not sure it will. I'm 29 now and the games i grew up with CS, Day of Defeat, painkiller, UT2004, Half life death match, quake 3, and halo 1-3, team fortress, tribes vengeance. I played these games a lot. they took up most of my play time I was addicted. I still play modern MP games but the spark has been missing for many years. COD and BF just don't do it for me and neither does fortnight or apex legends. I play Quake Champions from time to time but small player base and the game gets little to no support from Bethesda.

Seems like younger players are the opposite and are more into just COD, BF, Fortnite, Apex. I don't know if this is because they truly enjoy most or just because that's really all that's being made. It will be interesting to see how well Infinite MP does. I'm hoping it catches on like fire in CA.

@sargentd: ”Seems like younger players are the opposite and are more into just COD, BF, Fortnite, Apex. I don't know if this is because they truly enjoy most or just because that's really all that's being made.”

Those games are what is being made because that’s what gamers are spending the most money on. And many shooters have come and gone over the years. Hell, Halo has struggled to standout among the current bunch. And that was before the Battle Royale craze. And more of those have failed than succeeded.

And is Halo an arena shooter? I’m not sure it is…

yes Halo is an arena shooter

Imo halo has had a hard time being a standout because it has always been an exclusive to Xbox unlike COD, BF, Fortnite, Apex which is on everything. But infinite will be breaking that mold with crossplay with PC. Also going f2p i think will help.

Those games are what is being made because that’s what gamers are spending the most money on.

I agree. Cod and BF both squeeze out a lot of money, fortnight and warzone as well.

Warzone having full crossplay and being F2P has been a huge success. The massive numbers playing I don't think represents the quality of the game as much as reaching the broadest audience by being free, having crossplay, and being on every type of hardware. Makes people feel more comfortable spending money on battlepasses.

Arena shooters died after Quake 3 Arena

You have taken the lead!

Halo can't do crap its gonna take a fresh developer team that doesn't have anything to prove and just gets lost in development and makes something special

Halo 5 and INF and 4 aren't special they aren't unique they don't have bungie they don't have good developers they are crap

arena shooters died at quake 3 everything else it shoulda died when that game came out make somethign new make the next fortnite make the next pub g or whatever.

absolute nonsense

and no Halo doesn't need bungie, they are not a standard of quality anymore.

Destiny trash

Destiny 1-2 is way more epic than Halo 4 and 5 and INF

I anticipate the next bungie game 1000x more than 343 studios and I make perfect sense to the gaming public and this forum.

They agree with me not you.

@sargentd: I don’t know. I think you’re starting an unintentional debate with your thread. Here’s reasons why I don’t think of Halo as an arena shooter

- Character movement is MUCH slower than the usual UT or Quake

- The lack of the usual health and armor pickups, weapon amount that could be carried and variety etc that we see in arena shooters. A couple of the Halo games had health packs I think, but the shields recharged automatically

- The gameplay in Halo is far more methodical, and not reflex dependent, twitch based action like Quake and UT.

- Halo has loadouts now. Has for some time now. That’s a no-no for an arena shooter.

At best, Halo is a traditional FPS, tactical, arena hybrid. But it’s less arena based than anything else…

Looks like it'll be fun and I'm sure it'll do well, but... never thought of Halo as a proper arena shooter lol.

I do wish arena shooters would come back, but if we're stretching the definition to include Halo as a good example of the genre, kinda shows how dire the prospect really is.

Halo was Arena FPS for console. Traditional arena shooters typically too fast of aiming for controller. Halo found a happy balance to work on console.

Weapon placements on map are arena shooter style. Symmetrical arena maps with verticality. Loadout even when done kept with few differences (reach) Halo 2 and 3 had none. K/D spread focused MP but mechanics focused mainly around shoot, melee, grenades.

There is an argument to be made that Halo was not the same as the arena shooters on PC (it was slower and regen health was new) but its the closest thing to arena shooter on console.

Halo infinite ads grapple hook for more vertical movement, slide, and climbing. Halo infinite looks even closer to PC arena Shooter than halo 2 or halo 3

destiny 1-2 is bad and worse than halo 4 and 5

Idunno, anything can happen.

I'm wondering if the campaign is going to be absolute shit but they somehow manage to make the best multiplayer FPS in 10 years. Maybe? You never know.

From what I've read, the consensus is it's a refined Halo 5 mp experience, and that's a very good thing. Warzones is great fun.

I don't think Halo Infinite will be very hot until their BR comes out. When that's out, only then will the game will be big enough to compete with the big boys.

I enjoyed playing UT2004 but unfortunately that game died and they were unable to revive it. There may still be a market for these games but if they don't have the monetary backing as in gamers that are willing to pay for these games, they will continue to be just a memory.

I think this will happen and I say this as lifelong fan of halo.

Halo has not been known for "great" SP game since halo CE. After that SP became less of focus and was always outclassed by the MP. After CE most people were playing Halo for the MP. Halo is not a great SP. But Halo CE had a "good" SP campaign.

For the ones who care about SP there is some hope going off the AI shown in bots during the tech preview. Its good. If that translates to the SP AI it could be interesting.

But yeah for me the Halo SP was good for a legendary completion just to do it, and its good but it is not even close to something like half life 2.

Maybe infinite brings back some SP sparkle like Halo CE did. you never know.

UT2004 was and is the standard for greatest arena shooter imo.

Yes I agree, any game that wants to make a serious splash in this AAA corporate sea of mediocrity its going to take a lot money backing. Especially when going up against COD, BF, and Fortnite. This is why i think Halo has the best shot at turning the curve. At least in regards to this style of competitive MP. MS will promote the hell out of it and making Halo MP F2P and Crossplay with PC is the right way to go.

Ill be honest if Halo doesn't succeed but is still a great game, I'm probably screwed and only going to have COD BF Apex Fortnite clones in the future which will be depressing. Because I am so sick and tired of them. Halo is not the greatest Arena shooter and id agree with anyone who says its an arena hybrid. But its the only game in the space at all that even has a shot at making waves. For the love of god i hope its great and does well because I cant with this BR shit and I've tried.

respectfully disagree, Halo does itself no favors focusing on BR. A genre that has been oversaturated since fortnight blew up. A fresh and new genre starts to feel stale. 343 would be risking alienating long term Halo fans by focusing on BR. Trying to make Halo more appealing to the COD and BF crowd did no favors for Halo. That's why Halo 4 and 5 did not succeed as much as they should have. was trying to appeal to other fanbases.

Appealing to the Warzone Apex Fortnite crowd could actually kill Halo imo. Majority of Halo MP fans dont want BR. Rather have those resources making as many maps, vs modes, and refining forge than putting resources on BR.

If someone wants BR in halo they can make a game mode in Forge.

It might not have a little intro of your spartan jumping out of a pelican or some shit at the start of the match but it will do.

1 life

random weapon placement

random spawn.

boom you just made Halo BR

They have no choice but to focus on BR. Its the only way for Halo to be back on track at being a big shooter that even CoD/Activision doesn't mess around with. Normal multiplayer is just like Quake. It might be good still, but it will never be anywhere near as big as it once was. BR on the other hand, we have not seen it being done in Halo, and if done well, it can be pretty damn good. The TTK and shield regen fits the BR genre like a glove.

I am just not too sure if their engine is even capable of handling 100 plays plus, tho.

If it's shilled enough by e-celebs, I should think so.

Yes, but Splitgate is already doing that right now too

Looking at the thread...

Counterstrike - "Am I a joke to you?"

Anyway, Halo 4 got swallowed up by the CoD frenzie and a lot of shooters at the time. Halo 5 got swallowed up by the battle royale games which have only increased. Cross-play in both instances creates problems.

Halo 4 and 5 had excellent multiplayer experiences. Halo 4's campaign was okay, but Halo 5 was a mess.

We'll see what happens.

Too f**king slow to be an arena shooter.

Ever since the introduction of BR, people want higher stakes in their FPS games. Having too much RNG can be annoying, but also having only 1 life or a couple lives versus infinitely respawning gets the adrenaline rushing like arena shooters never could do unless perhaps you were in a tournament.

Warzone, Apex, Fortnite, Escape from Tarkov, Hunt: Showdown. All of these types of games up the stakes and take the monotony out of the FPS genre as a whole.

No doubt the popularity of the arena shooter is pretty much dead at this point. There are cult followings of some of these games, but I doubt it'll ever have any sort of big takeoff again. At least not for a long time.

No. For starters Halo isn’t arena shooter enough, as much as it has principles of an arena shooter. Arena shooters are faster, are more mechanically complex, and have a far far higher skill ceiling than anything else in the genre.

Their lack of success is A by product of everything that makes em so good. Simply put any other scrub can’t just hop on Quake n cook.

Those games are more about territory control, more about being aware of spawn timers, locations, more about proper 1v1 duels n opening plays n such.

BR you can play more cruise control, and contrary to the post above me, it’s because they are low stakes. When you know 90+ people are gonna lose with you, it isn’t that big of a deal.

Even Call of Duty’s bread n butter multiplayer, plays second fiddle to its BR mode now. And CoD has been fps madden for a decade and a half.

Two Halo games have loadouts. 4 and Reach. 5 and Infinite do not have loadouts, its equal starts. Warzone is a whole separate mode in the game with a loadout n burn card system, but Arena was a lot of the driving force behind the mechanical decisions.

I agree with Halo not really being enough of an arena shooter to compare it to the real arena shooters. But I think @DragonfireXZ95 is on to something with the stakes being raised in BR's vs traditional COD type shooters. You can make a mistake in TDM and respawn like its no big deal. In a BR, its game over. I used to have fun playing COD here and there, but now it feels pointless. That could just be fatigue finally setting in too I guess.

There being more options in the tactical shooter space is also eating into COD's significance. And again, I think it's because the stakes are raised in those types of games.

Yeah, I knew they'd been messing with loadouts, but couldn't remember which ones exactly. I only played swat and arena in Halo 5. And in those modes, the game just doesn't have the arena shooter feel. The mechanics are just far too different.

The one thing I hate about the Halo series. Makes you wonder if Bungie had kept making them it would have been different. Terribad idea to change melee, reload, aim etc. throughout the series.

If they introduce new MP game mode like you are it or hide and seek

@jg4xchamp fair enough, Its some what of an arena hybrid, much closer to arena shooter than anything else on consoles. Weapon Placement for one and tighter vertical maps. Infinite seems to be picking up on the movement speed tho which I like. Movement looks fluid really like how the slide brings in more momentum on slopes. also grapple hook. I like that shit. The movement is good.

People keep assuming I'm trying to compare halo to UT and quake

and no halo does not have strafing, bunny hops, and rocket jumps.

But it is more of an arena shooter than a COD, OW, or CSGO

@goldenelementxl BR you get one life typically so K/D doesn't matter, its about whos walking around on the map the longest without being killed.

Someone who just activley hides at the start and gathers gear while hiding is winning. This isn't what I like to play.

I've seen this, always turns into people camping around a house untill the circle moves again and then doing it again at another space in the next zone.

Like i get who people like it, but its just a totally different type of MP. Doesn't feel competitive to me. feels casual fun.

I hope so. Todays gamers are so freaking boring and plays such boring crap. Where's mah Unreal Tournament/Quake dudes at?

Doubt it.

Arena shooters appeal and the achilles heel in they are skill based. Typically stripped down to the essentials.

In shit like Call Of Duty and similar ilk, have padding. An MMO like trickle of "well done you" peanuts thrown at the player to make them artificially feel like they are progressing. Regardless of the actual reality they could be objectively terrible. Among other gimmicks.

Quake Champions tried to introduce elements of that stuff, the XP trickle of unlocks. Hero abilities to appeal to your Overwatch crowd.

Unfortunately it fell flat on its face, regardless of the game quality. New players go in, have a bad time. Leave.

Like fighting games must be willing to basically get thoroughly fucked for a extended duration of time to even start reaching "competent".

In many cases, rightly so, some folk just ain't willing to climb that wall in the name of fun, even if learning to overcome it is arguably a key component of the fun.

Stakes rising is part of the problem for casuals. The pulse pounding tension doesn't happen till way late in the game, normies don't care to be punished. Its why they respond well to games where getting kills are easier, as opposed to games where you gotta work for your kills (Arena shooters).

The one life shit is whatever, its the fact that's there is an element of randomness and there are so many players, and thus so many losers that takes all the heat off. In a 1v1, there is no getting around the fact that you suck. There is no "well I had a good game at least". In a 4v4 some what similar scenario, little less pressure because it's not all on you. There is a ramp up in tension in these games, which makes them fun, to say the least. And they are a better use of CoD's basic bitch mechanics, than actual CoD, but it aint some "increased stakes" shit lol.

Beyond that what added competition in the tac shooter space. Siege and Valorant are the only big things of note, and they are more competition to a game like CS than CoD. CoD isn't exactly a tac shooter, given its bread n butter was TDM, not so much search n destroy. At least its broader appeal was around its rpg meta game bs.

Swat is more like warm up mode/has some appeal to a CoDish crowd since its just precision gun and headshot insta kills. But Arena is where Halo's arena shooter principles shine.

Lack of loadouts, everyone is equal starts, weapon pick ups on map, and thus a need to control specific parts of the map n territory to go along side with being mindful of spawns n weapon timers n shit. Halo just also has more of a focus on its grenade n melee hot keys, and a weapon limit system.

Without the raw speed of an arena shooter as well, tho 5 has some cool tech for building speed n getting around the map quickly.

hmmmm? The older control schemes are still in the game.

Props on the Shyway vid, dude is a fucking king.

It's definitely of that lineage since its from that era of games right. So it's still got a lot of what made shooters work that way, but the speed is a huge part of creating what is the arena shooter. Like Halo is, I guess it sort of is baby arena shooter, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. As a lot of why Halo's popularity went down is just as much that getting kills in halo is more work than getting kills in CoD or butt royale games n such.

But I don't think Halo can kick start a return of the arena shooter. It's not that type of game, you would need a Quake or Unreal like experience to do that, and they keep not being able to pull it off.

I'm not super impressed by infinite's movement, like there is no conversation to be had we are going backwards in that department from 5, but luckily Infinite is aiming for less aim assist on the guns, less bullet magnetism (if there is a fucking god no more heavy aim ever the **** again), the increased base speed means sprint is really only there to enhance slide. It still feels like a bit of a middle ground between classic Halo and movement Halo, only this game might benefit from a more fully featured multiplayer.

But I don't think 5's gameplay was the short coming for that game, the staggered content release, the gimped BTB, those were far more damning.

Beyond that, this whole need for Halo to be some megaton (not that you're saying it, just seems to be the common trend in these halo threads) hit is a bit nauseating of a convo. Halo's plenty successful as is and has a healthy active community. I would much rather have a good multiplayer game with a respectable skill ceiling, than for it to be getting CoD numbers. The latter does nothing for me.

@jg4xchamp: I meant like from game to game, they changed them around so much.

There have hardly been any changes to reload (outside of speed, and even then 3 slowed it down a lot from 2) and melee. The lunge has been for awhile now, its still a hot key, it still insta kills on the back. Aiming has more or less stayed the same, if anything with less aim assist on the main starting gun, which is a net positive.

Bloom was probably the most offensive change to that shit, but that was a Bungie change in Reach that was immediately dropped.

Either way, does not check out. The mechanics themselves have stayed the same in function and applicability. Even Golden's post isn't about the mechanics being different game to game, but more specifically that halo's mechanics aren't what one thinks of when talking about an Arena Shooter.

@jg4xchamp: I think I found the inconsistency, Halo 3 used a slightly different default control scheme. Not a big deal, just an odd decision. I never liked using the right bumper to reload when all the others used the x button, for instance.

5 is literally still going as is the halo MCC. 4 didn't last long as the MP just wasn't that good in it but besides that all the halo MPs had legs. plus with it being F2P i'd expect it to gain even more users