@Jag85 said:
@jg4xchamp said:
Eh tbh Kamiya by gaming media types doesn't get anywhere near enough credit, they often have to be reminded of the fact that he also did Resident Evil 2 and Okami and Viewtiful Joe. Recency bias n all that, and in the case of Itsuno, with the DMC fanbase, we love Kamiya for creating the series, but pretty much all of us are at the altar of Itsuno for further developing one of the best battle systems ever. As good as Bayonetta is, it's a very different type of action game from what Itsuno has gone with.
As far as action game genre, specifically beat em ups like these. The top 2 are Itsuno n Kamiya and it's a matter of what you want to value more. Do you want to value cut n dry who has the deepest core combat mechanics, well that's Itsuno. Or do you want to side with the more inventive designer who has more unique entries in the genre: DMC1, Viewtiful Joe, Bayonetta, and The Wonerful 101 (and in a way you can argue Okami). Then Kamiya takes the spot. Either way it's those 2 and everyone else either only made one game of note (Mikami with God Hand, arguably the best game in the genre tho) or you got Itagaki (glorious Ninja Gaiden Black and still pretty good Ninja Gaiden 2) who hasn't done shit since he left Team Ninja, and they went n made Nioh without him. Barlog, easily best cat in the west tho. Since he got a good game out of God of War, fucking twice. Second time made a cool, albeit not that deep battle system.
But yeah top 2 dogs are Itsuno n Kamiya, and its funny how all these devs backgrounds shape the type of combat they make.
True, Hideki Kamiya doesn't get enough credit either. People know him for DMC and Bayonetta, but forget all about the amazing work he did with RE2, Okami and Viewtiful Joe. In all the hype surrounding RE2make, I didn't see Kamiya get name-checked much. With RE, it's Shinji Mikami that people tend to associate most with the franchise, much like they do with Kamiya and DMC. Yet the best traditional RE game, RE2, was directed by Kamiya.
Mikami also incorporated some brawler mechanics into Vanquish, although it's mainly a shooter, if that counts. I think it's become apparent that Itagaki isn't all that great on his own, yet he was an amazing designer when he was with Team Ninja. Itagaki and Team Ninja were at their best when they worked together. And which two GOW games do you mean? While I enjoyed the original GOW, I just found Kratos to be unbearable in the sequels, up until 2018 GOW finally made him a likeable character. Nevertheless, Cory Barlog is the genre's best Western designer, although not on the same level as the genre's top Japanese designers.
Mikami benefited from getting to remake his game, and being so vocal about during that era. But Kamiya was getting love from places like Polygon n such that were doing retrospective type articles. And replaying 2 right now, I'm gonna lean with Remake over 2 out of those classic resi games. Albeit I would argue Mikami these days as a dev period over Kamiya, but hey basically comparing two legends.
Remains to be seen what Itagaki could have done without a less hectic publishing environment. He basically got paired up with THQ at the worst time, and they had development issues, I think his design chops are pretty legit tho. Similarly Mikami made The Evil Within, which is good, all things considered, but a class below Remake, Resi 4, Vanquish, n God Hand. God of War 2 and God of War 4 (2018) would be his 2. I generally don't like Kratos at all, but I can get over aesthetics. Generally I've learned the more I learn about game design, and depth, and leveraging depth from a game, that shit like "button masher" are actually lazy terminology that gets thrown a bit too liberally.
God of War issue isn't that it's a button masher, you can certainly play far more efficient n skillfully. It simply doesn't have the sheer expression of a Bayonetta or a DMC. It has less moves, period. It is in many ways a diet Devil May Cry, which isn't a bad thing. Diet Devil May Cry is a shit load better than the parade of trashy western combat systems we got after, including the imitators of God of War. But 2 and 3 and have really good enemy variety that generally covers a variety of different attack patterns n spaces that pair with the lineup nicely, and the boss lineup is a lot of fun. It's not as good as say DMC3, Ninja gaiden, the Otogi games, Onimusha, Viewtiful Joe, or God Hand from that generation, but any other melee combat game would have a hard time going over God of War....without being a fighting game. Which is its own beast.
And God of War 2018 is surprisingly well thought out as a battle system. It needs more enemies, a slightly better camera, more command moves, more visually distinct enemies n bosses, and wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy less of those non-violent interactions that amount to the player doing so much, ridiculous nothing to "pace the experience", but the overall game is good. You can certainly do worse combat wise you could be Assassin's Creed or fucking Batman.
But yeah Kratos was an insufferable piece of shit, but I blame this forums and gaming community at large gassing him up as anything other than a shit character for why it made it easy to hate the game lol
Log in to comment