Canadian Parliment and Zelensky give a standing ovation to a LITERAL ukranian Nazi. Speaker resigns.

This might be one of the most embarrassing things I've seen in government in awhile.

And I'm American.

Canada.. why lol

I wish American Republicans were this quick to resign whenever they did something stupid.

Terrible idea, no doubt. Those responsible should take full responsibility for their lack of good sense.

I don't know the details of this particular person but knowing a bit of world history I can see how this person can been seen as a Ukrainian hero and why russian propagandists will make sure this will be in the spotlight.

Although said propagandists like to sell the idea that Ukraine is Russia and were always an happy marriage until evil west destroyed Russia, truth is that when the Nazis first came they were seen as liberators by many who lived under the Soviet empire. For the vast majority this was not about ideology but an opportunity to fight against an empire responsible for millions of Ukrainians deaths. And of course once Nazi atrocities against Ukraine began they soon realised that they were now doubly fucked.

It's not even exclusive to Ukraine and the reason why, not only in but mostly, eastern Europe, the existence of far right patriot groups with deep anti russian sentiments are still a thing today. In fact even within Russia, until Putin started to absorb them into police and military forces, they had the biggest number of neo Nazis in the world. That's what living under the Soviet empire does to your society.

That's def a fuckup, really no denying it. Whoever set that up needs to be unequivocally fired and never let near parliament again. Thrown propaganda directly into Russia' hands with a big gift wrapped bow ribben.

However that's a goof.

Wagner was (as they killed him now) created and defacto led by a Nazi with Russia actively carrying out (and leaked papers showing) Nazi like acts.

Should Ukraine lose they will be send off to concentration camps, rape camps etc..

Your average MAGA will completely ignore and never highlight this. Cause basically filthy traitors and a disgrace to humanity.

@uninspiredcup: my favorite part is how the speaker doesn't know who was fighting against Russia in ww2. Like he says this guy fought against the Russians in ww2.. and just never thinks about it lol

Yeah this is embarrassing as hell for Canadian government, and the fact they threw the speaker under the bus as if he was the only one responsible for checking the guest’s background before inviting him is absolutely spineless.

While this is a really bad mix-up, I've seen much more embarrassing things. Like Russia's Ukraine invasion.

My favorite part is that NONE of the members of parliament from all parties realized that this guy was fighting on the Axis side.

They all heard the same introduction. They all gave him a standing ovation.

Haha. Unbelievable. Yet it happened.

It shows lack of research from the Canadian parliament.

Very embarrassing and a big propaganda win for the invading forces of Putin.

What about Zelensky? He should know better. As a matter of fact, i'm not inclined to believe, that he wasn't aware. How can he and other Ukrainians not be?

It's a bizarre scenery. On one end, old men in their 90s get dragged to court, because of their participation in genocidal activities some 70-80 years ago and on the other end, this...

What an orchestra. A win for Putin? A win for those who want to keep the war going.

@palasta: Meh, I'll give Zelensky a pass as English isn't his first language and I doubt he knew anything in-advance about this or what it was about. Seems like nobody really knew about this in-advance.

As I posted above, it is kind of hard to believe that none of 338 members of parliament knew that fighting against the USSR meant you were fighting for the Axis. Yet they all stood up and now look like morons.

I think the most likely scenario is that this is what you hear...

We have a guest, a 98 yr old war veteran from my riding....yay, who doesn't cheer for 98 yr old war veterans

Stood up to Russian aggression....yay, Russian aggression bad

Some people stand up

Therefore

Everyone stands up

Let's all feel good together.

Honestly, I have been to many corporate events like that when you aren't even sure who or what you are standing up for...but you do so automatically.

Shit, in my working career I gave out all sorts of awards to people that worked in my groups, because they ultimately worked for me, but some I had never even met before. I said all sorts of nice words about them because my EA had reached out to the managers of those people and gave me notes on what to say. Over the course of my career I probably got all sorts of things wrong.

Shit happens I guess, but amazing fuckup amongst the whole herd!

It's clearly a **** up . But place that on the organizers not Zelensky, been introduced to a guy for all of 10 seconds after being flown around the world almost round the clock garnering support for the defense of his country.

It's actually amazing the spectrum of attacks the man has had. From total dumb shit like Sarge here (ordered by Tucker orange man) attacking him for "not wearing a suit", to implications he's a homosexual because he done a dance video when he was a comedian. To being a Nazi (he's Jewish) . To money laundering. To being a CIA stooge. A coke head (with Russian manipulated video) . etc.. etc.. etc..

Just any shit they can milk, basically. And it works, MAGA's are incredibly stupid.

While Putin is, literally, 100% a criminal. Now a war one, at that.

Honestly this was a huge **** up. If the context is "fought against the Russians in WWII", then it's an Axis or Axis-aligned power, and that means fascist.

Now, not all German soldiers (hell, most) were Nazis but if this guy was an SS soldier, then he was definitely a believer in Hitler.

Hope the organizers are held accountable and frankly I sort of wish the audience was smart enough to hear "WWII veteran that fought against Russia" and think "woh hol up" but these are politicians we are talking about here...

With that said...still not that big of a deal; a dumb-but-honest mistake and, at the risk of whataboutism, not a fraction of a fraction of a percent as reprehensible as what the far-right does regularly (on purpose) these days. I mean what's worse, accidentally supporting a Nazi or intentionally supporting a Nazi (or, sometimes, actually being a Nazi)?

Yeah, thought so 😋

In case you had any allusions to where his loyalties lie.

And this isn't a fuckup, it's purposeful. He's turned Twitter into a right-sewage hole.

@uninspiredcup: and he complains he is getting too many enemies.

Not smart...

Yea not watching that. Not even going to bother checking to see if it's some rando pro-Russian media, because already know it is.

What I did expect (and you did it exactly as predicated) was that you'd attempt to shit on Ukraine, backing Elon up.

So, purely taking this section, ignore all the other 2 years of shit

- Rushed a thread to announce parliament was misguidedly praising a Nazi through ignorance (got em!) after falsely announcing (got em!) a military draft in the now OT politics section

- But, when Elon purposefully, 100%, with intent is promoting fascism, genocide, murder, rape, torture and all horrific shit associated with that, you have an almost automatic knee jerk response

Please never scratch your head confused again when I mention you are Pro-Russian, actively rooting for them to win.

@sargentd: cheezus thats terrible. But the good thing is, the speaker resigned for his eff up. You don't see that kind of thing happening here.

Also, just goes to show you that good and bad is just decided by history. The Ukranians have tons of white supremacist / nazi ideology that goes back a long way. So do the Russians for that matter, but I would say its less entrenched for the Russians...just for the fact that the Russians despised the Nazis.

@uninspiredcup: That's horrible even for Elon's very low standards and pretty much makes clear which side he supports.

One thing is the argument that countries have no obligation of financially support Ukraine's defence. But when you actually criticise Zelensky for seeking support that makes it absolutely clear.

Also, for a dude who got billions from government he probably should try to buy some self awareness.

@kathaariancode: He also showed up at the border checking out illegal immigrants.

You have, the richest man in the world, on safari, trying to get rid of, the poorest people in the world. The most desperate.

Just imagine if, instead of buying X, which is now basically the same, but worse, with a stupid name nobody is ever going to call it, he used that $44 billion to help other people, other than his ego.

On literally, any charitable service, medical, homeless etc.. etc.. how many lives would that money have not only helped but straight up saved?

Instead we get to play the russian (Sarge' fav) roulette of "what stupid thing will Elon do next?"

He's now following and engaging with Britain First.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britain_First

In case somehow need further confirmation he's a piece of shit.

fascist nazis vs the commie soviets.

Hitler or Stalin pick your poison. Both were shit governments.

But I appreciate Russia helping us destroy the 3rd Reich in Germany. Wouldn't have beaten them without thier help.

But yeah **** Stalin and commies.

Respect to our friends in Poland who reject them both.

Given that the Soviet Union invaded Poland in conjunction with the Nazis, it isn't really surprising that Poland hates Russia.

I always find it amusing that the Russians call it the Great Patriotic War that started June 22, 1941 when in reality they lit the same match as Adolf almost 2 yrs earlier.

It's almost like they don't want to acknowledge their invasion of Poland in Sept 1939 along with their new Nazi friends. Nor do they like to acknowledge their invasion of Finland just 10 weeks later at the end of Nov 1939.

Yeah, fcuk Stalin, but you will still apologize for them today, when in reality Putin's regime is just a repeat of Stalin.

I do have to admit that having a billionaire that's a cartoony villain is kinda cool.

Could give a shit less about any soviet union country. I'm American.

Well I don't really give a shit what country you are from as I respond to thoughts and ideas, not nationalities.

Your lack of knowledge on this topic is par for you. You trot out tropes and soundbites. That's it, that's all.

Don't give a shit about Russia or Ukraine or thier war. Has nothing to do with Americans.

Nationalities mean nothing to me. What matters are ideas. When people (including sargent) have been trying to dismiss my opinions, because I am swedish. I just roll my eyes. What finds me more concerning is when someone like Sargent, spouts out views that would likely imply he hasnt even taken sociology 101.

And yeah, the Soviets were little more than Red Fascists, and so are the tankies who support them (and China) now. I consider Putin to be a Neo-Stalinist. Right down to Russia's expansion. There aren't many positive things I can say about the current swedish government, but how they upped support for Ukraine, is one of the few positive things I have to say. Ukrainians deserve to live in a free democracy, and it is quite clear that Russian interference has sabotaged their plans to democratize properly. Ukrainians are far freer under their own internationally respected borders than they are under Russia's regime. Just look at occupied parts of Georgia or Chechnya.

Even from a selfish perspective. Together we stand, divided we fall. If we act selfishly, Russia will eventually come for us, so they are already eyeing us, they want Gotland.

The is a reoccurring theme notice with right-wingers.

They will actively post Russian propaganda and anything designed to degrade Ukraine.

In this case of this forum, it has been you, and you alone exclusively and continually for 2 years straight. Going so far as to be the only one creating anti-Ukraine threads in Off-Topic.

Yet when highlight this, ball up, "ahhhhhh I actually DON'T CARE." Dontchaknow.

Even though, all history in the world ever, through actions show you are engaged in it, and actively rooting for one side.

Also get this line as well "ah, whatabout OUR problems". Those problems are longstanding. Could have been solved before the Ukraine war. The reason they are something MAGAS all of a sudden give a **** about is because it's ammo against the left, they don't actually care, façade.

Whatever Biden San does, we do the opposite whatever leverage we can me, messa' grab.

Still the most despicable aspect, aside from feigned empathy, is conditioning MAGAS with apathy. Not only apathy, distain for people going through hell. Been conditioned to view Ukrainians are vermin, dehumanize them as much as humanly possible.

It was pretty obvious for a while now Elon was part of the train. The only silver lining that he's that, actively stupid and unchallenged he'll implode it in own logic constantly.

But basically turned Twitter into the largest right-wing disinformation platform on planet earth. His actual contribution to humanity. Having in reality never actually invented anything.

That didn't take long.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/elon-musk-sued-falsely-claiming-man-fed-posing-neo-nazi-1234836778/

I do not see anybody as "Vermin". But I do see wars between Russia and Ukraine as none of my concern as an American. I want no involvement in this territory war between these countries. Neither are US allies and it has nothing to do with us. Id feel the same if it was a war between any 2 countries where neither are a US ally. It doesnt have to be these 2 countries. Id feel the same with any 2 countries at war that are not our ally.

We typically would refer this as being a "non interventionalist"

Ironically up untill the last couple years this would be seen as a more progressive/libertarian position.

I can't help it that many of you guy's have turned everything on its head to justify it and become massive war hawks cheering on funding proxy wars. But I'm against it and don't care if you want to throw insults at me for it or try to label me something for it. I was against it when it happened in the middle east and I'm against it now. I want no involvement.

If Russia actually comes for my country or our NATO allys we will be in a world war. I do not believe a world War is something Putin is trying to gain by this war with Ukraine.

IF and that's a big "if" Russia decides to directly attack the US or our allies. We will HAVE to go to war directly with Russia. I'd argue funding this proxy war between Ukraine and Russia as pushing us closer to that reality than preventing it.

Keep coming up with this reply, but that's not the actual reality of your actions.

You do care. You are rooting for Russia. Everything you have posted, multiple times over have been Kremlin talking points. Even in this post "proxy war".

You are Pro-Russian and you post, Russian disinformation. In a loop. Multiple times (and if I did so with your OP post) it would trace back to someone either a criminal or on a list of propagandists.

That's a fact. Regardless of hand-waving or the fluff "ah **** Russia as well" when it gets brought up. Actions have proven this in an incredibly repetitive manner. Not subtly, don't need to be Columbo with his shitty banger car to see it. Anyone with a working brain who's seen your posting habits can see it.

-

And done the usual switch tactic as well.

Went from "I don't care, but here's me spamming Russian propaganda" to "I just want peace, which means let Russia win"

Which itself, is another Russian propaganda talking point filtered down through disinformation primarily aimed at right-wingers, specifically MAGAS.

Your post involves Russia taking no accountability but everyone else externally. Giving Russia all that it wants. In other words "surrender".

Also get these repetitive posts proclaiming "Russia has no choice le proxy war made them do it"

Really?

Did Nato make them gang rape this woman outside Keiv and hastily attempt to hide her body as they failed to burn her, hoping it would not be found?

Nato made them do this? Ye? In loop?

That territory was occupied btw. Under Russian control. And common, repeated for 2 years. On a mass scale. We haven't had war-crimes like this since ISIS.

See, while Russia and twats like Tucker Carlson target you to dehumanize them, MAGAS an such, Russia does this 1000 times stronger with it's own people where these people are subhuman to the point you can do anything under the sky.

Ask yourself, if you're Ukrainian, would you rather be under these people, or die on a battlefield?

As a rational person, with some basic level of empathy (i.e. not a MAGA) would you want to support these people and not actively reward this? Even taking into account Ukraine's problems?

See, basic. No one wants war. But the idea of Russia leaves, pay reparations and those accountable be taking to court be held accountable is not even something that remotely flickers in a MAGAS mind.

Let Russia win. Give them everything. Le_Peace.

Le_Clownworld

To summarize - Everyone you follow and get information from are trash. Told you this multiple times, but continue to ignore it.

Their goal is for Russia to win. They are enemies of the West. And just, shit people in general.

In actuality would love to see Ukraine destroy Russia. Would be fantastic.

However that is not the reality.

The reality is that they are loosing 100s of thousands of men.. and are not big enough of a country to sustain the numbers lost.

They are gaining no ground, just loosing men.

Our best chance of saving lives is ending the war with diplomacy.

If Ukraine would rather fight than concede any territory in western Ukraine to end the war.

I 100% respect that decision. However this is not a USA war to fund.

So yes fight to their hearts content, until the last Ukrainian. I actually respect that. I hope you win it. But don't expect us to indefinitely fund you and write you a blank check for eternity in this conflict.

We have given more than enough funding and support. We have given enough. Time to cut them off.

@uninspiredcup: Yep, other people more broadly are coming to the same realization. The NY Times is running an article stating, paraphrased: "Why do these people want to cut Ukraine aid and parrot Russian propaganda? Because they want Russia to win. They see in Russia ideals worth emulating."

Or maybe Americans are struggling at home. Maybe Americans are wondering why we have no money to help Americans here in our own country. But can write blank checks to Ukraine.... With inflation and the costs of good so high, with gas prices so high, housing costs so high, homless numbers so high, breaking record numbers of illegal aliens entering the country with our own borders being so broken.

why are we writing blank checks to a non NATO ally.. and to be frank most Americans couldnt point to Ukraine on a map before this war (even now most couldnt) If they continue to indefinitely fund this proxy war while everyday Americans get little to no support from thier own government... i expect the percentage wanting funding to Ukraine to stop... to only go higher.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/04/politics/cnn-poll-ukraine/index.html#:~:text=Overall%2C%2055%25%20say%20the%20US,say%20it%20should%20do%20more.

@sargentd: It's the best bang for the buck, low risk foreign policy we've had in a long while. Even if you aren't in it for humanitarian reasons, why are you not in it for National Defense reasons? It's been very, very effective.

Sure it is Lindsey...

@sargentd: Ah, another empty response.

@mattbbpl: I mean what kind of response you looking for to "best bang for your buck"

But hey if you want me to elaborate..

"Humanitarian reasons"

If you believe extending a proxy war to go on as long as possible.. when there is no clear outcome where Ukraine comes out on top.. I don't see how that is "Humanitarian".

"National Defense" I'd argue that involving ourselves in this conflict to this level has only brought us closer to a direct war with Russia. I don't see how funding a proxy war against Russia (an adversary and nuclear power) is helping our "National Defense". Seems to me it does the opposite....

It's obvious to me this is the government going "hey Russia is an enemy, our enemy invaded Ukraine, let's fund this proxy war in Ukraine, who cares if Ukraines population gets slaughtered, not our lives, we can hurt Russia with out sending one American to fight" we don't want peace deals, we don't want the war to stop, we don't want negotiations, we want Ukraine to fight until they are a crater. It will leave Russia with some deep wounds. This is our "investment".

@mattbbpl: and you know what else is sad. Russia is only gaining millitary strength by this war continuing. Russian forces were at 1.1 mill at the time of the invasion and they are planning on increasing it to 1.5 mill because of the conflict.

Russia obviously did not expect the west to get involved at this level and are arming themselves appropriately now for the possibility NATO does decide to get directly involved.

They are now focusing on increasing troops, ammunition, weaponry. They are currently a country at war preparing defense. Russia has arguably a stronger millitary now than they did at the start of this invasion.

Eventually you guys will realize this conflict was not a great investment. It was not "the best bang for our buck". And it's unfortunate that this has to play out in real time before you realize it's all but money and lives lost.

Ukraine will fight anyway.

This was evident day 1-3 when a 40 mile line of tanks was at their doorway and they prepared with home made molotovs. They knew they would die. Even if they occupied all of Ukraine, which was the original intent, subjugated they would still fight.

Air defense systems alone have saved countless lives. Russia tactic has been (deliberately) to level cities. Bakhmut is an egg-shell and entire villages no longer exist in the world. Terror is a tactic for them, not something to be avoided.

Russia is our enemy and has attacked Nato countries. Multiple times. This is fact. The reason they did this in the first place is that they expected us to do nothing, they thought we were weak and are still actively counting on long term erosion. Mainly, from you guys. That's part of their tactic as well, targeting you.

They should, 100% be deep cut. As hard as we can hit them. To deter them ever thinking about pulling this shit in other areas, or again. Full stop.

Seem to have it in your head they are the victims and it's some JRPG karma wheel where we have to think about their feely weels. Which is part of your propaganda indoctrination.

Russia wouldn't last 2 seconds against Nato. And wouldn't dare use nukes. From the start threatened "don't do X escalation", and we've just largely ignored them and gave Ukraine more and more.

Nobody buys that shit. Only pro-Russians looking to use threat (hey guys you're being DWAFTED UP! Get worried, go against them go worried, are you worried?) as a means to deter support. Fear mongering.

I can sit and eat chicken wings, jerk off, play Doom and go to bed safe and sound without even a hint of threat.

@uninspiredcup: cup.. realistically. When Ukraine runs out of men to fight... (and this will eventually happen.. it is not an infinite amount)

What do you expect to happen. In your eyes what does the end of this war look like.

Genuinely..

@sargentd: Their are multiple ways it could end. Multiple things could happen. Have no definitive answer other than hoping for the best outcome for Ukraine as well as Russia, one where Putin and his criminals are gone and it has something close to approximating democracy.

But your automatic assumption here "Ukraine will run out" is itself Russian talking point and not how war works.

It's not Starcraft with zerg rushes. You'll find history (my own history for example) is full of examples of smaller armies winning.

Entire chain of stuff outside combat itself. Be think tanks to deal with this stuff, both America, Ukraine, Russia, Europe, etc.. etc.. will have far smarter people than us trying to predict paths and outcomes and direct it. Such as Russia directing you, right now.

So yea, not the big brain guy from Star Trek, rando internet user hoping for the best.

Just once again trying to direct us to the "let russia win" route. Winging any angle can.

"I care about Ukraine, but let Russia win, for the sake of Ukraine, le_care"

Threats. Outcomes. Blame and motivation. Internal problems. Ukraine problems. External problems.

->let Russia win<-

@sargentd: neither are good options. Communism has alot of issues, though the way I see things, the word doesn't mean much anyways. Nobody can say we're a true free market...not with how much the government and courts interfere with things. I guess you could say we're a tuned up communist economy dressed up in a caputalist pigs lipstick. Only a fool would think we're true capitalists. Just like you would be a fool to think China is a true communist country.

True Communism vs nazism, if I had to choose, I'd go with the commies every single time. With the nazis and their white supremacy, I'd be dead. With the commies I got a shot lol.

Meh we are talking about governments from 80 years ago. Germany is no longer a national socialist third reich ethno-state and Russia is no longer a famine ridden communist shithole.

But I get your point. When talking about Stalin vs Hitler... Russia was better.

Like I said atleadt the stalin lead commies spent lives to defeat the nazi shitheads with the allies. So yeah they were better. Glad they helped us.

As far modern times>>> Russia-Ukraine I'm not invested in any of it. Want nothing to do with it. Guess that makes me evil or something.

Are invested it in. You're the only person who's made threads here about it alongside actively posting Anti-Ukraine pro Russian content for 2 years straight.

Keep repeating that, but we know it's not true. Not sure at this point exactly who you are trying to convince here.

And Russia sided with the Nazis. Part of their glorified history (along with their Berlin rape spree) they won't bring up from their romanticized vision where they fought against fascism when in fact, they are facist and now share more in common with Nazi Germany than any country that isn't called "North Korea" (who they have allied with BTW desperate for weapons because it's actually Ukraine in trouble )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact

MAGAS don't really like to admit it, you won't. But Matt was 100% right. Get manipulated by Russia because they share the similar ideals.

Why you're all batting for them. And Russia knows it and par for the course, including promoting homophobic rhetoric which will no doubt get your average MAGA hard in the pants.

Just as an experiment, let's go back and check your OP source you posted, right? See if he falls in line with the predication of being a criminal and/or on a propaganda list.

Oh.

022 Russian invasion of Ukraine

In an appearance on Tucker Carlson Tonight, Greenwald expressed support for the Ukraine biolabs conspiracy theory.

In 2022, the Security Service of Ukraine placed Greenwald on a list of public figures who it alleges promote Russian propaganda.

What makes you think that Ukraine will run out of men before Russia runs out of equipment?

Oryx is an open-source repository of equipment losses based upon photographic or video evidence. It covers both sides and is not controlled by either side.

The Russian losses are staggering in tanks, IFVs, and artillery. There is a reason why they are now dragging replacements out of storage that were made in the 1960s.

Interestingly, a substantial portion of Russian losses are things captured by Ukraine. This along with western donations explain why Ukraine has more equipment today than on day 1. Russia on the otherhand is believed to have lost 40-50% of their entire inventory.

Moreover, there is every reason to believe that Russian losses in manpower are also much larger than Ukrainian.

But my considered opinion is that the relative size of armies and their manpower base has little to nothing to do with outcomes as evidenced by history over and over again. In this case, I believe that infantry without equipment on the modern battlefield is just deadmen waiting to happen.

Moreover, if we use artillery as a surrogate we should ask what has changed in the relative balance between the two sides since Day 1? You might want to look that up because it is quite revealing.

Thus, I have reason to believe that Russia will run out of equipment before Ukraine runs out of men and IMO that will decide the outcome. But the outcome itself is a different post.

@uninspiredcup: I'm invested in it as far as not believing we should literally "invest" in it as a country. It's not our war. We have given more than enough aid. Gotta focus on our own country.

Slavokia and Poland also have moved in that direction recently.

And they are way closer to that bullshit than we are.