Does God exist?

What, about sin?

You know exactly what I brought up mere minutes ago. Holy fucking shit man.

Yes, you asked about homosexuality. And, yes, that is a sin, clearly indicated in scripture. It is abomination in God's eyes.

Not sure what else you want me to say.

Did god create someone a certain way, then call him evil for being that way?

Well, no. God made us all imperfect. Each and every one of us have things we must overcome on our journey toward God. God made it this way so that we can learn to let go of what holds us down, the weight of sin, the pull of it. God frees you of sin; He liberates you. People are not evil. Sin is evil, and certain principalities are evil. There are forces that work through us, for good and bad. God loves you, intensely. He tells you, in your heart, what is good and wholesome, and He does this because He wants you yourself to strive to be good and wholesome, to follow His ways. He wants you to come back to Him.

Yeah. And gay. Then tells us it's wrong. What a fucking dick.

He even made animals gay. Wtf, they're innocent.

But anyway, god frees us of sin, so we can just go on sinning away. Phew.

Animals are animals. Sin applies to humans, not animals. And, again, there is a clear design behind our struggles with sin. It is for our own good. Our betterment.

Yes, God frees you. You certainly will still have to battle against sin, as its gravity is part of the human condition. But once you allow the Holy Spirit to enter you, it will immediately begin to "clean house" in your mind, and in your heart. You will find in time that what was once appealing, is no longer.

I don't think, for example, gay people turning to suicide because christians keep telling them they're wrong and/or evil is especially good for betterment. And that's just one problem that comes with your (christians) view upon homosexuality. To not do that, and instead let people (who, again, don't hurt anybody or anything) live in peace is just way more understanding, humane and compassionate. Things that are extremely important for the well being of others.

And that is what I want. For everyone to be well and to not feel like something is wrong with them when there isn't. Christians do not want this, and that is completely fucked up to me, and what is truly evil.

I think I'd actually rather die than being brainwashed by bullshit. Instead, I will continue being the kind of person I'd like others to be towards me.

Turning to God, with all your heart, instead of shunning Him, will keep you from suicide. Of this, I can absolutely assure you. I speak from experience. When the Holy Spirit enters you, you will feel a sense of love that you have never known before. That love will clear your mind, as well as your heart. And you speak of Christians, but these are God's rules. These are things that God wants. As Christians, we want it, too. Because it comes from God.

There is no brainwashing. That is precisely the opposite of what God offers. God liberates you from forces that would have you brainwashed; brainwashing implies a branching-off from truth, whereas God will fill you with truth, leaving you unable to be brainwashed.

As for being the person you'd like others to be toward you--that is exactly what God calls for. Jesus said to love one another, as he has loved us.

Kindness, understanding and other real help is much better.

Yeah, christians really should follow that. But instead you make gay people feel like shit.

God is as real as it gets. He is, in fact, the only real thing.

As for the other part, that makes no sense, dude. You say God is not real, or whatever, say Christians are this and that, horrible people, yada yada. So why, oh why, would you care what a Christian thinks? You really put so much importance on a Christian's words, that you, or gay people, whatever, let it make them feel horrible, to the point of suicide? Why? If Christians are such fools, then why put any importance on what they say?

I get called all manner of foul things all the time for being a Christian. Or just for believing in God, period. All up and down this thread there is evidence of this. I've been called mentally ill simply for believing in God, a moron, an idiot, and worse--on and on it goes. Am I going to kill myself over it? No, no I'm not. It doesn't even bother me one little bit. I take it as a badge of courage. Why? Because, as a Christian, you have to be prepared to have mud slung at you. You have to have a thick skin. But God provides you with that. He gives you strength, bolsters you. With God on my side, I don't care what anyone else says. Nothing gets to me. I feel powerful, full of love and life--full of God's love, and God's life.

@nod_calypse: How are humans not animals?

Because others might believe the shit you christians say instead of getting real help, which often leads to suicide. I don't give a shit about the crap you believe, but others do, and it can be very destructive for them. Like a gay person constantly hearing from their christian parents that there's something very wrong with them. They will start to believe that there's actually something wrong with them, when there is not. I care about that because I have compassion. If someone is being disgusting and evil towards someone else like that, I care. It's in my nature.

No, you don't get called things "for being a christian", you ignorant dumbass. I called you all of those things because you were being an ass, not because you're a christian. Throw shade on others for not following whatever crap you think everyone should follow, and you get called names. Which is only right. Hopefully people continue calling you names whenever you're being an ass, and hopefully you drop that "I'm always right, and thick skinned, so I don't have to listen to you" mentality you have going on. It's incredibly annoying.

My mother is a christian, but she ignores the insane shit that follows it and just take with her what's good. She'd never call homosexuality wrong or evil, since it fucking isn't.

Man has rah-dah over animals. As well, man is granted the authority of kah-vash over the animal kingdom. This is not to say that we should not be kind to animals, however. as we most certainly should be. Man is created in the image of God, but animals are not. Man bears the spiritual imprint of God, which grants him an immortal soul. Animals do not have an immortal soul, no spiritual imprint. Humans, being created separate from animal, have the inherent capacity for worship; this is distinctly a message from God concerning our existence. Animals were given by God for food and other uses, separate from humanity.

It goes on, but those are major points.

Ooh, boy. That's a hoot.

First, that's your reply to all of that?

Second, have I not explained several times in this very thread I find your beliefs to be bullshit?

Humans are animals. Everyone who says differently is a fucking idiot.

@Litchie: Dude, you're really, really heated. For your own good, you might want to take a break.

Remember I love you. I don't hate you at all.

I understand perfectly well why you back down every time it gets difficult for you. It's sad, though.

Like I said, I love you. When you've cooled off, we can continue the conversation. I will happily discuss anything you wish.

But, again, for your sake, dude, take a breather.

Sure. I am calm, don't worry (albeit annoyed), but if you don't want to talk to me anymore, I understand. Would you ever want to reply to what I said instead of ignoring it all, please do so at your own leisure. I'll be sure to read it whenever you do.

@nod_calypse: But humans evolve along with all the other animals.

Did god created life billions of years ago, microscopic fauna and all, caused a few mass extinctions, keep evolving life, created mamals, then primates, kept evolving them along with all other life forms, then from the primates started the Homo genus until it get to us, and kept evolving life on and on?

So how was it, when the first animal of the genus Homo got to be genetically considered Sapiens, God gave it a soul? Did those Sapiens that mixed with Neandertals had less of a soul? Is there a point when you officially can say "that's when God created Humans" or "that was when God gave us souls"? Because humans pre-date your religion by hundreds of thousands of years.

Can it be that Hinduism got it right and not you? Maybe all living things have a soul?

@Litchie: Okay, sounds good. Please have a good day, and take care.

@kathaariancode: Yeah, it really comes down to imprint. Whatever man's course is, he has the imprint of God. This sets him apart. Rah-dah, and kah-vash, are deep enough to fill a tome, but suffice to say it is granted through God's hand, and His alone.

@nod_calypse: So when was that imprint, exactly? Is it possible that other religious scriptures got this right but not yours?

Btw, why god created religions prior to yours and after yours? Is like what, different truths? Updated truths? Or some are false, but not yours? How does this works for you?

Can it be that humans created religions for mental relief?

The imprint occurs at the point of creation, of course--meaning at the point of the Father's breath. No, I do not believe other views in this case are correct. But of course anyone is free to believe what they wish. I do not push my belief on others. I simply state what I believe. If you don't believe it, then that is fine. And vice versa, such and such.

I believe other religions were created as a way of testing the true heart. God allowed their creation by man. The heart can only be true with the presence of the Holy Spirit. When one invites the Holy Spirit in, one sees truth. A world of multiplicity in terms of the various beliefs of a given sect, individual, principality, etc., is a test of discernment.

Yes, I think many religions were created for superficial, if relief-producing, purposes, among other purposes. I do not believe that Christianity, in its pure form--meaning the inspired word of YHWH--is one of these religions, though it certainly does provide relief; that, however, is not its sole purpose. FWIW, I do not adhere to the organized "religion" aspect; I adhere to personal relationship with the Father, and with Christ. I believe Christianity is the Truth, and the Bible is the inspired word of God. This, of course, is but my belief. You, and anyone else, are free to believe whatever they want. I try to plant seeds, but if they don't grow, then they simply don't grow; so be it. If you do not believe what I believe, then I simply knock the dust off my feet, so to speak, and move on. It is your right, as it is mine. I'm usually open to certain discussion beyond that point, however, as is evidenced abundantly.

@nod_calypse: What do you mean by "point of creation"? The moment when the first homo sapiens came to be? Or do you believe that humans were just created as they were, not being part of the evolutive process?

No, no. You're thinking in terms of Cronus's domain, or Saturn. This is a misconception.

Let me explain (concisely). The Father's point of creation is the essence of timing, and at the same "time", beyond timing. God does not exist in a domain of time, as He created it; He is unlimited, unbound. His point of creation is THE quintessence of perfection in an organic reality, which, of course, is bound by His laws. This is why Christ arrived when he did, at the perfect moment in time, indicating the countdown to the seven-year tribulation of mankind. It gets deeper (and deeper), naturally, but suffice to say, the Father observes the river, but is not afloat in it, so to speak.

@nod_calypse: That's a non answer. God, if real, created a universe where time exists and set up natural processes where time is a key element. Without time his creation wouldn't have went from the primordial universe, to the creation of the solar system, the appearance of life and the evolutive process. All that couldn't be without time.

You say animals don't have souls but humans do. - Humans are undoubtedly animals but let's move pass that because that erroneous differentiation ends up ultimately being semantics and counter productive to the discussion at hand. So what I want to know is, when, in the evolutive process, is the ape from the homo genus given a soul?

Well, yeah, I didn't say time doesn't play a role. Of course it does. I simply said God is outside of time, not bound by it. Therefore his timing, so to speak, is perfect. It is an answer, quite certainly. You saw it otherwise, however.

As for evolution, it's a theory. There is fact in there, too. Nobody really knows in totality. This is why it is both fact and theory. Observable in a laboratory (think flu shots), but not provable across the board, in all instances. Can God create things with the capacity for change over time? Of course. As for apes, they are not given souls. The soul arrives in the human vessel at the point of conception. This is, to be clear, different from point of creation. Conception is flesh, post-creation.

I do not personally know the complete ins and outs of man's dynamic anatomical crawl across time. Nobody does, which is why it is indefinitely debated. Much is known, though, to be sure. To be honest, I don't particularly concern myself with this area. I believe man is complete, from the start. Most of his dynamic nature is spiritual.

@nod_calypse: While incomplete, for instance the origins are still very speculative but it's know to happen across the board. As in, just by looking at DNA, without knowing it's source, you can identify not only the species as you can relate it with other species and know how close or far they are in the evolutionary branch. You can compare the DNA of a Human to a fruit fly and see shared code with the same functions in both species. And independently of that you can compare fossil records and see clear evidence of evolution too. And while usually a slow process we already registered evolution happening in the natural world. There is absolute certainty that evolution is real and that humans are obviously part of that process. That part is not in question.

That being said nothing about the evolutive process says that god exists or not. Much like our understanding of the universe, it just says that theological interpretations of reality are limited by human factual knowledge.

By man being complete, you mean that you believe man was put on earth in the current form? And all the evidence that shows otherwise was fabricated by god? That's fascinating. Was it just a couple, as in Adam and (first) Eve? Or did god spread several of us across the globe?

It's fascinating, for sure. I think science is elegantly intriguing. It's like a flashlight, shining on God's creation, seeing how it works in bits and pieces. I've been fascinated by it, if not every single aspect, since I was a child. As for being used to prove or disprove God's existence--it will never do that, I'd say. It just doesn't work that way. The way God created our condition, we have to look within to prove his existence, which then, naturally, becomes a subjective matter. Also, a spiritual, non-physical matter. God certainly intended it that way.

Anyhoo. Yeah, evidence for evolution to any degree, seems present. No argument there. As for evolution, and man's beginnings, there are many possibilities, some more plausible than the next, but many nonetheless. Genesis is open to broad interpretation, to say the least. Much is not said, which is a matter of focus, and refinement, but lest I digress--man is made complete, yes, but what does that imply, specifically? For instance, did God allow for man to change over time, physically, mentally, etc.? Entirely possible. Humans once lived much longer than they do now, for instance. Something inside of us changed. God making us complete might simply mean a complete process, over time. Hypothetically speaking, as it is of course a shadow work in many tones, if man outright evolved, then at the point of complete evolution, meaning at the point of attaining humanness, he would then have progressed into the image, the imprint, at which point soul is applied, the imprint, naturally, being an archetype awaiting fulfillment. That we share much with the ape, and vice versa, on a biological, genetic, etc. level, can mean several things. One, we progressed from them. Or, perhaps, we simply share genetic lineage, but did not progress, in which case both creations would simply be close to one another, even to the point of the appearance of descending lineage, but distinct flesh. There is no reason why God could not simply make man very close to ape. He would have worked off the same design, essentially, but added the extra distinction of making us uniquely human.

What makes a sin a sin? Why is being gay a sin? Homo Sapiens is animal. Your body functions exactly the same, gay animals are gay for the same reason humans are gay. So "he", god, made animal and human kind of completely the same, and decided to give a certain lump of flesh the unprovable and unnecessary soul... that comes from somewhere... and upon death goes somewhere else... maybe.

For our own good? Looking at mankinds history, past present and future, there are not a lot of winners. A very very very small percentage even got the chance to know that they're being rated by an invisible divine entity. How many of the trillions upon trillions of souls got through so far? A thousand, a hundred? Your God doesn't seem eager for (re)unifaction. Is more like a game developer of 80s console 'n arcade games. Delibaretely making a game as frustratingly diffictult as possible, in order to drain them kids wallets dry.

Sins gravity part of human condition? The human condition is what makes sin/evil. Human intelligence, the ability to understand and manipulate the world homo finds himself in. Including himself, for example telling fancy tales of the divine. Any other animal species can't tell you stories about god and chesus, and you can't bring them the gospel. No other species can bring disruption/disorder/evil/sin like homo.

Proof?

God. Close your eyes, ask Him. Do it with your heart.

Pre-flood.

what a monstrous crock of shit.

I suspect the writers of scripture weren't homosexuals. Imagine if they were and it were flipped and your "god" proclaims heterosexuality to be evil and a "defect" that you must overcome..

"hey looks guys, in this scripture I just wrote it proclaims the way I am is right and just and the way people I don't understand are are evil!"

how convenient.

There's none.

Pre-flood; and;

Enoch, Jubilees, Jasher, Pseudepigrapha, Esdras, Tobit, Judith, Manasses, Maccabees, Solomon in various instances, Jeremiah, The Twelve Patriarchs.

It goes on. Apocryphal records. Not being condescending, but you would not have read any of this.

@comp_atkins: You have your take, and that is your right. Have a good day.

@nod_calypse: I'm sorry, you might believe that but that doesn't constitute evidence.

I did read the Gilgamesh which was a literary influence for the biblical flood myth. Does that count? People also were kind of immortals in that tale.

Well, no, I'm not talking Uruk, or Ur in any respect, for that matter.

These are records from Septuagint, Vulgate, etc. Again, this is not your area. Which is fine, of course.

Yeah I almost find this nicer religious extremists almost as bad. Worse, in some ways.

The malicious religious folks will be homophobes to your face; these folks will be nice to you, pretend to be cool with you, but they still think you're going to hell.

They will also vote in favor of any legislation that discriminates against homosexuals.

I know, just wanted to see what bullshit reply I'd get. Was a pretty funny answer, like all christians who can't explain any of their insanities.

Imagine using the Apocryphal records as proof. lmao

@Litchie: @mrbojangles25:

I love you both.

Thanks, love you too 😊

lol. Is that phrase supposed to make me go nicer on your stupidity? It's coming from a gay-hating lunatic, it does nothing for me. Save that love for your cohorts and fiction.

Well, fwiw, I lived in SF for over a decade. Lived right there in the Richmond, off Geary. Worked in the Castro for a big chunk of that time. I guarantee I've got more gay friends than gay people you've met in your entire life.

Most gay people, I mean not the ones screaming on TV and whatnot, simply dismiss sin, and call it a day. I dust my feet off. Like I said, I've got many gay friends. They've got their beliefs, I've got mine. We both accept this.

I'm not convinced your gay friends are fine with you calling them wrong and evil. I think it's more that they ignore your insanities, or just don't know about them.

You're not understanding. That's my fault. Let me try to explain better.

People are not evil. It doesn't work that way. A force works through people, and that force, or forces, can be bad, or good. I love gay people, just as I love any other type of person. I'm in fact bursting with love. Sick, stinking homeless man in the gutter--I love him, and just want to pick him up, give him a hug, spread the good news to him, see him get better. That's just an example.

Listen, it's not flesh, not people that is evil. True Christians have open arms, and love all. God decrees what is sin, and as followers of God, we listen to Him, and accept His wisdom. He knows what is bad for us, because He created us. So, I declare what is sin based on what He declares is sin, what the Holy Spirit declares is sin. Now, does this mean I shun, attack, etc., etc., gay people, or anyone that is sinning? OF COURSE NOT. Dude, we are all sinning. I sin. I don't like it, and I try not to sin, but I'm flesh, I am weak, I am not perfect; I make mistakes. We are all in this predicament together. The only one that can walk the earth in perfect harmony with the Father is Jesus Christ. At best, we can try to be like Christ, but we cannot be him, ultimately. So, for salvation, we accept Christ, as he is the doorway to salvation.

If anyone does not accept that sin is sin, that it is bad, that you shouldn't do it--then that person has made their choice. I say what I believe, but I won't hit you over the head with it. If you do not believe what I believe, then so be it; you have the right to believe what you wish, just as I do. I will quite simply go on my way, and leave you to go on your way.

Again, I love you, and everyone. I don't want to see people hurting, and, as a Christian, I know that sin hurts people. Badly. So, I simply put that fact out there. If it is not accepted by any given person, then I leave them alone, tell them I love them, move on. Or, I continue to be friends with them. Yes, there are gay people that hear all of this, and know where I'm coming from, just as I know where they're coming from. We accept each other.

Interesting reading the back and forth. You guys are all zealous lol.