Most Brits reckon Brexit has failed, new poll finds

https://www.politico.eu/article/britain-brexit-fail-new-poll-nigel-farage/

It was a matter of time. The size of the market became way smaller when they left.

I wonder why labour is not proposing to at least partially rejoin.

It did. Was complete shit-show lol

The only good thing see is that the Tories have fucked up the country so badly, and are so obviously corrupt that they will probably never be in power again for long, long, long time. Basically be wiped out in entire areas.

Very much looking forward to this.

They can reckon it or not for all I care, but the fact is Brexit was a colossal failure.

The world is too small of a place these days to adopt isolationist, "me first" policies. Nations would do well to remember this.

I wouldn't get your hopes up.

I know it's not a 1:1 comparison between the UK and the US, but Republican policies are overwhelmingly unpopular in the US and the party as a whole is a huge joke, and yet they wield a lot of power still.

If you're hoping a party that deserves to fade away into obscurity will do that without taking your country down with them, you might be in for a surprise.

If I had to guess, and this might be oversimplifying it, they probably need to wait a while for the memory of it to fade away.

If they went now, they'd lose a lot of face and influence.

If they stay the course and do their best, they can at least say "hey we tried". I mean, this is Britain we are talking about. Empire of empires and all that, they have their collective pride.

Honestly, I think it's wrong to equate Britain to America.

The Tories do not have the same type of grip someone like Donald Trump has where he's basically like a fucking deity to some folk.

They both suck but I think how we perceive them is apples and oranges.

The current leader for example Rishi Sunak has the charisma of a sponge and seems to be on an alien planet. And for general rando person not that informed about politics, that matters.

On a base level, it's great a brown person is running Britain, this will piss off the right, which always for. But he's like (and my memory is terrible) the 4th leader in just a few years. Who was never actually elected by the public. They just had to swap constantly because their leaders were so corrupt or so terrible. We tend to take note of that while you're average Trump suppurter type is "Gaewd bless Amewica, praise Jesus!" "It's mah gowd given right to carry a machine-gun to school!" etc..

Even they know about to get severally fucked. Gonna make a night of it, whip out the pringles.

@uninspiredcup: Yeah can't say I'm overly familiar. Been trying to get better about UK politics since they are interesting, especially last few years.

There was that one PM and I think it was a joke but who would last longer, her or a head of lettuce? I think the lettuce won.

Pod Save the UK is a good podcast, for anyone interested. Pretty funny. Good interviews. Love the phrase I heard from them "chat shit, get banged". I think here in the US we say "**** around and find out"

I think because it would be political suicide.

There's been a lot of confusion about class identity and who's subsidising who since the dawn of New Labour. That's my very simplistic take on things, at any rate.

No politician can admit that for years to come.

100% this. there's little to no tribalism, cult of personality bullshit here. its nothing like america. the conservatives have fcked things up so badly with so much shameless, blatant corruption, as cup says, they'll never get anywhere near power again for a long, long time once the next general election comes around. and it cant come soon enough

Record inflation, a Social credit score given to our most powerful corporations , massive crime waves, rampant homelessness and drug addiction all under an America ran by liberals. The Democrats have been an absolute shitshow.

OK now you're just parroting FOX News. Give it a rest, dude. Yeah things could be better, but honestly? Thank god a Democrat is running things because all of the things you listed would be worse with a Republican in charge. Party has been going down hill since Reagan screwed things up.

Time to go outside and "touch some grass", as the kids say.

I suggest a lovely visit to San Francisco. Did some crabbing with some friends over the weekend then walked down town for half a day. I barely stepped in any human feces at all! It was a very nice day. Not a big fan of the parking situation though!

That must be nice. So you get along with your peers, more or less. At least politically?

And there's actually consequences for your politicians?

Wow. Sounds really nice.

@mrbojangles25:

OK now you're just parroting FOX News. Give it a rest, dude. Yeah things could be better, but honestly? Thank god a Democrat is running things because all of the things you listed would be worse with a Republican in charge. Party has been going down hill since Reagan screwed things up.

Time to go outside and "touch some grass", as the kids say.

I suggest a lovely visit to San Francisco. Did some crabbing with some friends over the weekend then walked down town for half a day. I barely stepped in any human feces at all! It was a very nice day. Not a big fan of the parking situation though!

How can I parrot something I don't listen too? Things are a shitshow now. The " it could be worse excuse" is nothing more than maximum cope. I haven't been to San Francisco I did however go to Seattle which was full of homeless drug addicts next to the grown men wearing their little sisters close.

You say Reagen screwed things up yet he is the second most popular president in the modern era only behind JFK. You have no concept of reality.

Entire right wing repeats the same talking points.

Reagan was the start of the demise of the middle class. His policies definitely had a negative effect.

record inflation?

JFC, you don't even have read anything OUTSIDE of gamespot to know that's nonsense.

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/offtopic-discussion-314159273/inflation-down-to-3-percent-33606072/

but do please carry on with your nonsense.

what's that got to do with what i said?

Oops I deleted my post. Was tryina edit, lol.

Barack Obama generally outscores Reagan via public, business and scholarly polls.

https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/07/27/most-and-least-popular-us-presidents-according-ame

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-top-20-presidents-in-us-history-according-to-historians-2017-2

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/presidents-ranked-worst-best/36/

Planet Earth to Silentchief, is there anyone in there?

Your second link has Reagan ahead of Obama.🤣. Do you even read your own sources? I also said modern era so why are you posting polls with George Washington and Abraham Lincoln ?

Im mainly referring to This. It's a little more comprehensive than historians as it's based off the public. Regardless saying " Regan screwed things up" is usually a term used by delusional leftist.

You said conservatives fucked everything up which is categorically incorrect. The left has been responsible for the vast majority of our current **** ups.

It's almost as if restricting the poll to a handful of presidents skewers the results, eh?

Hmm...

Union Busting, levying taxes on the poor (ie. grocery tax), repealing taxes from the rich, Afghanistan, Iraq (twice), Iran-Contra (did we forget about that?), failed North Africa policy, ballooning the size of government, etc. etc. etc.

All Republicans.

Well it's kind of relevant don't you think? Should you be asking people their thoughts on a a dead president that lead when they weren't even alive?

Most people will agree George Washington, Abraham Lincoln etc are the greatest presidents who ever lived but that is pretty irrelevant to modern politics.

@silentchief: english conservatives pal

@mrbojangles25: fom my experience in general yeah there's a collective dislike and mistrust of politicians but obviously there will be a range of views. be interesting to hear what other brits think. mileage my vary etc.

being british culturally it ranges from from mild grumbling all the way up to vitriolic. but there are consequences for our politicians, they tend to not be able to weather the storms and wriggle out of things in the same way american politicians seem to

It is relevant because it's part of the same data set. If someone hasn't heard of or has no opinions on the president they have those options as answers. This isn't just statistics but psychology, as well.

@Macutchi: Love how it instantly flipped to America. Truly the worst country in the world.

Rooting for CCP.

There is a reason why other are trying to join the EU. Brits are not that smart

@Macutchi: The UK was already a shithole when the left brought over millions of immigrants from third world countries. The right was tired of being the dumping ground for 3rd world countries.

Unions are trash half the time and have sunk entire industries. While we're talking abou taxes let's talk about Inheritance tax, estate tax etc. The ridiculous push for reparations , the botched pull out of Afghanistan and yes massive government overreach.

All Democrats.

Is that all you got?

How is it you folks want a return to the halcyon days of the 50's and 60's but without unions? How does that work?

Also, maybe you should look up the tax rates during these periods.

so youre just team conservative no matter the country eh lol. fascinating insight pal. sounds like you could educate us all with your deep understanding of pre 2010 uk politics

@Macutchi: Funny thing is that immigration has been rising in the UK post Brexit, and now from non UE countries.

I lived in the UK for 8 years but decided to get out of Cambridge and return home. Brexit was the first alarm bell, it was such an obvious mistake. Apart from being obvious, when you see the kind of people supporting it are either MAGA sympathisers, Putin sympathisers or both, then you start to realise that's something terrible wrong with that picture.

But it was Boris election that made us pull the trigger on jumping the sinking ship. How anyone familiar with the character can vote for him just blew my mind. Not just that but media was vicious towards the labour party, you couldn't go a day without some news about them being anti Semitic or some shit like that. And that's why I don't think people saying the Conservatives won't be touching power for a very long time are in for a surprise. I really hope Labour gets their chance, but as soon as things somewhat normalise you'll get the idiots that voted for Brexit (2x) and Boris along with the media machine ready to bring them up again.

@Macutchi: Funny thing is that immigration has been rising in the UK post Brexit, and now from non UE countries.

I lived in the UK for 8 years but decided to get out of Cambridge and return home. Brexit was the first alarm bell, it was such an obvious mistake. Apart from being obvious, when you see the kind of people supporting it are either MAGA sympathisers, Putin sympathisers or both, then you start to realise that's something terrible wrong with that picture.

But it was Boris election that made us pull the trigger on jumping the sinking ship. How anyone familiar with the character can vote for him just blew my mind. Not just that but media was vicious towards the labour party, you couldn't go a day without some news about them being anti Semitic or some shit like that. And that's why I think people saying the Conservatives won't be touching power for a very long time are in for a surprise. I really hope Labour gets their chance, but as soon as things somewhat normalise you'll get the idiots that voted for Brexit (2x) and Boris along with the media machine ready to bring them up again.

Immigration saved the NHS lol

They lit saved millions of peoples lifes.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2008/jun/18/nhs60.nhs2

This idea that they are all ISIS inbreds with bone sticks looking for woman to rape is typically waved around by right-wing dumbos fringe groups. There are plenty of immigrants who come over with good intentions. Not everyone is bad, believe it or not.

Like if you've actually been to the UK rather than watching shitty ass Youtube vids from gifters you'll find many, be it Pakistani, Polish, Indian, Chinese, or even newly arrived Ukrainians are hard working people that would actually make resident UK people look comparatively lazy.

As for UK being a shithole, Scotland has been nominated and won the title of most beautiful country on planet earth multiple times over.

@Macutchi: (England hasn't unfortunately)

I'm just being honest. Corporations avoid unions by shipping the jobs overseas.

It is what it is.

Keep it UK in this thread folks. No need to drag US politics in here, f. ex. rating US presidents.

UK media has deep need to blame all the UK problems on everyone else than their own politicians?

The US is largely a service industry, now. You can't exactly ship those overseas.

And since you broached the subject, the best way to ensure a future for the wage worker is to bring the whole world up to economic parity. An international convention on worker rights and wages would be a godsend, but the right would tear it apart because OMG NWO.

@horgen: Depends on the media outlet. Something like the Daily Mail and the newly (cancerous) GBnews is akin to your Fox News. Do anything and everything to prop up Torries.

But it's not really working at all. Britain is far too entrenched in political cynicism.

Certainly do get our own version of Trumpers, hard-line Tory and BNP type bozos. The kind of twats who watch anti-SJW type shit and are upset they can't even say the N word 9 times in a single paragraph anymore, but by and large we just tend to have a deep distrust of politicians in general.

@uninspiredcup: I was a manager there and I agree, in my experience people from less developed countries or poor Eastern UE countries worked really hard. Also female immigrants tended to outperform their male counterparts, being Italian guys a fucking nightmare to manage. British people weren't great either, in my first day as a manager my area manager told me to avoid contracting locals, I thought that it was silly and I quickly found out he was right.

There were exceptions of course, but basically the more vulnerable you are the bigger the insensitive to perform and achieve independence.

dont blame you.

the two things the conservatives have in their favour at the minute are theyre not obligated to call a general election until jan 2025, so even if there's a lot of anti conservative sentiment right now a lot can happen in politics before then, and labour don't have particularly strong leadership, a labour vote to many will be more a get-the-tories-out vote than pro labour, and that's a delicate position to be in for labour.

but i think that a lot of the brexit voters are feeling the pain of the economy and all the fallout brexit has brought. they'll have seen so many of the pro brexit promises made turn out to be fantasy. im sure it will have affected their lives in some way and so therefore their votes, but you never know, i never expected brexit to happen and here we are.

yes but we're both part of great britain so a win for scotland is a win for us all. just like with the football 😇

i wouldn't say that, although i dont really read newspapers. outlets tend to diffuse or excuse blame rather than explicitly point the finger elsewhere, but there's a lot of doom and gloom in the news. and political corruption and incompetency, and negative brexit induced consequences are reported on often.

there are a few rabble rousers - daily mail being the main culprit - but cup has hit the nail on the head, british political culture is one where people are generally mistrusting of politicians, without having immovable affiliations, which is why we look on bemusingly at certain americans when they get so deeply entrenched in their "side" winning that any attempt at open debate is pointless

That's nonsense. Try calling anyone's customer service they are rarely American.

Corporation don't give two shits about economic parity. They want the job done as cheap as possible.

😆🤣😂🤣😆

Look up what a service job is. I'll wait.

And I never said anything about getting corporations permission. What are you smoking this morning?

A service job is any job that provides service to its customers. My guess is your trying to limit it to restaurants etc?

You asking for an international worker rights for service employees is utopian bullshit. You are asking for global government overreach 🤣.

Service jobs are jobs where you do a physical service to the customer. IE waitress, plumber, etc.

Norwegian, not American.

We got what we call insane right-wingers to but they are leftist according to Americans I think.

Well, we in the USA had our Brexit moment with Trump, coming out of protest votes for Jill Stein, and it's Trump who appointed three right-wing Supreme Court Justices which will still remain extremely consequential for years to come, not to mention a decade of gerrymandered congressional districts based on purposefully incomplete census data, states gutting voter rights by limiting access. We have a congressional body that fails to reflect the will of voters, and celebrate anti-intellectualism, and simply wish to tear down government, all while promoting hateful fear mongering ideologies of people of color and the LGBTQ community, and to support a type of fascism that says it's everyone's right to be an unhinged Karen on bathsalts armed with an AR-15 and you can do or believe whatever you want because if someone on the internet said it then it has to be true and it's in the Constitution.

I wish I could say oh Great Briatain, get your shit together, but looking at our mess, I realize fixing this shit is harder than it looks. But you have my sympathies.

It's amazing how much simple terminology our right-wing posters get wrong. Sometimes I think it's 100% on purpose, just to shit post.

It's amazing how our leftwing posters get simple facts wrong. You said the" US is largely a service industry" ... so I didn't think you were actually talking about just " service industry jobs. A large portion of Americans still work in customer service and even manufacturing.

Most of those jobs can be outsourced or completely done away with. I had a robot bring me food the other day. I was able to order without ever talking to a person. So back to the original point. Why the **** would anyone hire an overpaid union worker?

Why don't you ask Boeing?

They've moved a lot of their plants around (including closing the one here in Tennessee so they could move to North Charleston, South Carolina, a 'right to work' state) to avoid the unions. Shit went downhill from there.

____________________________________________________________________________________________

https://www.fitsnews.com/2019/05/07/more-bad-news-for-boeing-sc/

Production issues at Boeing’s North Charleston facility are obviously no secret. They have been detailed on multiple occasions in the past. But as Wren’s report noted, this was “the first time such private criticism from Boeing’s customers has been made public.”

Our guess is it won’t be the last …

____________________________________________________________________________________________

https://www.fitsnews.com/2019/08/04/report-boeing-customers-complain-about-shoddy-work-at-south-carolina-plant/

The latest developments? A report in The (Charleston, S.C.) Post and Courier – which is typically a cheerleader for Boeing – alleging that a controversial efficiency program that allows mechanics to inspect their own work is “leading to repeated mistakes.”

“Some of the mistakes are serious safety hazards, like debris being left in the sensors that measure air speed while a plane is in flight,” reporters David Wren and Glenn Smith noted. “More common problems, workers say, range from surplus rags and bolts left in planes to loose cabin seats and unsecured galley equipment.”

According to Boeing workers who spoke with the reporters on condition of anonymity, “the self-inspection program puts production speed ahead of passenger safety and that problems are often ignored to meet deadlines.”

“It’s an everyday thing – every single day,” one employee told the reporters.

____________________________________________________________________________________________

https://www.defenseone.com/business/2019/03/boeing-has-severe-situation-after-parts-left-tankers-top-air-force-official/155543

____________________________________________________________________________________________

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/faa-says-new-boeing-production-problem-found-undelivered-787-dreamliners-2021-07-13/

____________________________________________________________________________________________

https://samchui.com/2019/08/09/airlines-reveal-shocking-boeing-787-production-issues/

____________________________________________________________________________________________

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-boeing-lost-its-bearings/602188/

In the next four years, Boeing’s detail-oriented, conservative culture became embroiled in a series of scandals. Its rocket division was found to be in possession of 25,000 pages of stolen Lockheed Martin documents. Its CFO (ex-McDonnell) was caught violating government procurement laws and went to jail. With ethics now front and center, Condit was forced out and replaced with Stonecipher, who promptly affirmed: “When people say I changed the culture of Boeing, that was the intent, so that it’s run like a business rather than a great engineering firm.”

@br0kenrabbit: That seems to have more to do with their " efficiency program " than anything to do with a Union? Boeing needs to be hiring the best people for the job. Does a Union help with that? I know not all Unions are created equal but in my experience they help bad employees keep their job.