War in Ukraine - Anyone else notice growing Ukrainian Nationalism against Russian citizens?

So, as it's mostly seen in other social media spaces like Twitter, I'm noticing a lot of an Anti-Russian sentiment lately. Not just at Putin (he's obviously deserved it), to damn near every citizen of Russia. They'll even bring up how a majority of citizens approve Putin's attack on Ukraine. Some of them I've seen questioning why Russian citizens are allowed to travel to neighboring countries, and even as far as the US still.

And seeing this, I can't help but be reminded of America's mistakes, towards either it's citizens of Middle Eastern descent after 9/11 or even worse, Japanese during World War II (which involved interning them AND nuking two cities). And especially in recent years, the US has been held accountable to those, to the point of Hiroshima and Nagasaki being considered war crimes.

Can only hope we don't resort to either of those to Russian citizens and I say this with support for Ukraine and their war against Putin. Anyway, your thoughts?

Yeah, and it's fucking lame. Russians are good people. Had plenty of Russian friends over the years, and the crap they have to put up with now from freaking morons that have the Durr Durr Ukraine Good All Russians Baaaad virus is insane.

To be clear, I'm talking for the most part about non-Ukrainians being jerks.

@nod_calypse: Wait, aren't you the guy who insists that Putin is playing chess, and this conflict is going according to his plan?

As for Russian citizen criticism, I haven't noticed any personally. The bad takes on the war that I've seen are still all of the type that Russia is really steam rolling over Ukraine. But that's mostly coming from the likes of Ben Shapiro and his supporters.

Yeah, and, lol, what does that have to do with anything? Putin does not respect flesh, his own, or others. He views them as chess pieces. Pawns, if you will.

And yeah, Ukraine is getting steamrolled.

That being said. I love Ukrainian people. I have Ukrainian friends. I love Russian people. I have Russian friends. Me speaking the truth does not change any of this. I am not pro any country in this bullshit war. Just calling it like it is.

@nod_calypse: Just judgment on the topic and insight into the people you are likely to follow on social media.

Yeah, def don't follow who you're talking about. And if it's just judgment on your part, all good. We all do that sometimes.

Have a great day, dude.

Given the nature of Russia crimes the world has been relatively objective and calm, ignoring right-wingers who have been cheerleading genocide and Putin as their new daddy.

Most of the bile is directed at Russian leadership as outside of Russia they can't really dictate the media as they can internally, merely attempt to influence it.

Ukrainians specifically, horrific acts have been enacted upon them to be forced under subjugation. It's understandable (though not excusable) some won't be objective.

I haven’t noticed in real life or online to be honest. With the situation in Israel though I’ve noticed a huge increase in both anti semitism and Islamophobia, both online and in every day real life.

I think it's just the algorithm and social media doing what it does best: skewing information to one side or another.

Best to just stay off it or, barring that, use multiple sources.

This is my biggest problem with people that "both sides" the issue; the far right is so, so, so far right that they can't be compromised with.

Why? Because the compromise between moderate and far, far, far, far right is far far right. It's essentially the old negotiating tactic of asking for a really high number you know you won't get so you can seem more reasonable.

So Russia invades, unprovoked, with aspirations to take over X, Y, and Z then they can seem all reasonable when they say "Oh well the people in this part are pretty much all Russian anyway, right? So no big deal. Also Russians are free people! Look we just had democratic election!"

There's no moral high ground to be gained by taking stances like this:

This is a copout, I am sorry to say. No offense but...ick.

You want to find compromise in politics? You want to be diplomatic in peacetime? That's fine. I would prefer that.

But this is war and you need to pick a side.

And if you can't find a reason, well, find one of self-interest. I support Ukraine because, well...they're not Russia, they can be considered a Western ally, and we need a buffer state in that part of the world.

Also Putin is an autocrat and we should just be against that by default. He isn't playing chess, he is indulging his whims because he runs the show.

And frankly, with estimates at 400,000 Russians dead, I'm not sure the Russian people really are against the war. You would think after that many deaths and failure they'd, I don't know...vote Putin out? Stage a coup? But I'm probably underestimating the Russian propaganda machine.

I did pick a side. I pick people. Regardless of where you live.

Difference between us, is you pick a false right-left paradigm. Which is why you default to "hurr durr Russia bad, so Russia people bad, so....Ukraine! Ukraine!"

The news is tailored for minds like yours.

Between Russia and Ukraine, yeah Ukraine is a Western ally. But imo they still got ways to go before we can fully consider them that. A view I think is shared by many.

@mrbojangles25: Notice a pattern with them where they will basically spam Russian propaganda or pro-Russian talking points, but when you tell them what they are they quickly backtrack to "oh we gots our own problems, I actually don't care at twall!", that type of shit.

Mean, ignore Sarge, look at Nod above, repeating the same shit he did. 5 minutes ago he was telling us what an epic Chess player Putin was and how much Ukraine is (let me check)

Now, AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Care about people. I'm above all this, donchaknow? Even though I was like, boasting about what a great man Putin is, that dude who just leveled and wiped out entire villages, with the bit of the old rape and teh murders.

The people.

Well, gee, I'm stupid, I guess I buy it? Dur. Dur. Dur. Dur. Durrrr

^case in point. Think what the TV tells you.

Literally said nothing about Putin being epic anything.

Said he uses people like chess pieces. Was the implication as well.

And yet. And yet.

I learn all my life lessons from Revenge Of The Sith.

Pretty normal when your country is attacked by another country TBH. When the war started, Russians in general were okay with it so there's that. Not sure what there is to discuss here.

That was what you meant to imply here? That Putin just uses his people like chess pieces?

Uh, yes, dude. Which is why I said precisely that, apropos of nobody asking me anything:

Putin does not respect flesh, his own, or others. He views them as chess pieces. Pawns, if you will.

@nod_calypse: Lol, give it time, dude.

Excellent contribution, friend. Can really feel the depth.

Aren't many of them still okay with it?

most fled else where not to get thrown into the army

Yup. But, can't say shit like this to those that consumed the propaganda of "hurr durr russia bad, russia peeps bad, all of them, all want Ukraine dust" because it goes against their programming, and fuses get blown.

In reality, there is an exodus going on in Russia, composed of Russian people that protest attacking Ukraine, and actually care about Ukrainian families. I know someone personally that bounced out of there to avoid getting sucked into that BS. AKA good Russian people.

Sorry, doesn't work that way.

Russia or Ukraine: who do you want to come out on top here?

Yeah it's something I've noticed Alex Jones doubling down lately since he lost his court case/s. In an effort to sound like he isn't the bad guy, he (and his ilk) will say thing like "I am pro-human" or "I'm just a god-fearing American. I love my family, my country, and my guns" but the thing is that usually follows or precedes a rant about how, idunno, immigrants are poisoning the blood of America, or how democrats are kidnapping children to harvest adrenachrome, or anything else.

Example:

I am a pro-human. More importantly, I am pro-gamer. I just think maybe we should roundup all Playstation owners and maybe give them IR chips in their wrists so we can maybe identify them. I don't think that's unreasonable. I'm not saying we should do any harm. I'm just saying we might want to entertain these thoughts. Like I said, I love games, people, God, and my country. And I don't hate Playstation owners. I just think maybe they have it out for us, you know...us real people. We have to stick together. I love you. God bless.

I'm on the side of the people, after all.

Fantastic. Really deep contribution, well-reasoned. Melting from the profundity.

Will consult you when I need to know how to update paradigm shifts.

Don't even try nod, they just regurgitate msm talking points from thier governments. If the talking box tells them the money sent in aid and the deaths are not theirs but ukranians, so it's worth it, they will say it's good and the best way. 100% get what you mean with not picking sides but picking people. And yeah, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out Russia is in the better position right now compared to ukraine... it's not about liking either country or thier governments, it's just common sense and numbers.

Yeah both Russia and Ukraine will send out cannon fodder. Those people will die for nothing and thier families will get a letter in the mail. Sad asf

I do my best to treat everyone with respect, but the invasion of Ukraine has indeed greatly diminish my views of Russia as a whole.

Call me crazy but I'm pretty sure the Ukrainian people want the war to stop, and if there was a ceasefire tomorrow they'd be all for it.

Can't say the same for the Russians.

And before either of you get on your passive-aggressive "I'm on the side of people" high horse, just don't...we all know Russians, we all have that person in our life that we think of when we generalize or stereotype, so there's no need to make the "some good Russians" argument.

This isn't about "some good Russians"...this is about Russia.

"Some good Russians" haven't been able to do a whole lot about Russia.

Most? You the the ~500k out of 150 million? That's "most" in your books? Most are supporting the war and most of the ones killing and raping Ukrainians right now are volunteers going there for the promised salary that is at least 10x higher than what they would be getting at a regular job.

It's irrational but expected. Same thing is happening towards jews and Israel. It's difficult to have sympathy when you see people being so passive towards abusive leaders and human cruelty. But like the MAGA movement has teach us, no one is above being manipulated into a blind following. We're social animals and easily exploitable that way.

Russia is especially frustrating because they just keep going from piece of human garbage to another for hundreds of years. It's difficult to know what one would do, but I would rather die trying to put one bullet between Putin's eye's than live passively under him.

I'm not going to say the Russian people can't be good people but the country's czar-first oligarch bully culture, constant history of revolutions, cultural/brain drain from those fleeing war conscription, and it's heavily propaganda influenced people, they're all part of why this war is happening. Without a complacent and essentially brainwashed population, Russia's leadership wouldn't have felt they could endure the political fallout of senselessly invading a neighbor, throwing hundreds of thousands of their own people into a meatgrinder, wasting decades of military hardware buildup, and putting the economy into effectively a wartime state.

Right on, blood. I see you. Good to know there's another real one in here. Keep fighting that good fight.

And to any Russians, wherever you are, that may be reading all this and thinking wtf, just know that not all of us out in the west are like the anti-Russian-propaganda-devouring buffoons in this thread. Some of us have minds of our own, and use them. Peace.

Whenever a right-winger downplays or attempts to make the war come across as pointless, it's paraphrasing for "let Russia win".

At no point anywhere, is Russia leaving, paying reparations or people going to prison a thing.

It's Russia done nothing wrong, seed them the territory, you have no chance.

I'm not cheering for Russia, even though every action I do suggests this, honest. I just really, really care.

Did you know I think outside the box as well? I'm like Neo in the Matrix and you are all sheep. Even though, I'm actually repeating exactly what Russian troll farms feed.

In this moment, I am euphoric.

@sargentd: Your source.

Pretty much every source you have posted 2 years straight has been someone disgraced, a criminal, or discredited. All Pro-Russian propaganda.

What is this? Like, the 6-7th time been pointed out? Just ignore it and keep doing it in a loop, in this case repeating the same source even though this was already pointed out in a prior thread.

oooh! And don't forget the prisoners that are killing and raping for Russia so they get pardoned! Can't forget the prisoners!

Pretty much.

We saw how appeasement failed with a little dude called Hitler in the 1930's. Let's not repeat history.

@uninspiredcup said:

@sargentd: Your source.

Pretty much every source you have posted 2 years straight has been someone disgraced, a criminal, or discredited. All Pro-Russian propaganda.

What is this? Like, the 6-7th time been pointed out? Just ignore it and keep doing it in a loop, in this case repeating the same source even though this was already pointed out in a prior thread.

This is like the 186th time you refuse to engage with what's being talked about and instead revert to "this source can't be trusted! It's propaganda". And this is The Hill ffs lol.. it's not even fringe, it's pretty mainstream.

Like you don't talk about what's being said at all. You can't engage with the content itself at all. You just drone out on me everytime. And it's always a deflection to "your brain washed by Russian propaganda" or "your ACTUALLY PRO Russia since you think they aren't getting completely destroyed by Ukraine"

@sargentd: Engaging with them gives them credibility.

One of them repeatedly posted was a twice convicted peedophile who was having champagne at the Kremlin on Christmas, going on to promote Pro-war propaganda books aimed at desecrating the West.

Like, shouldn't be ME checking your sources for you Sarge. And this is Googling for 2 minutes. Not fucking Columbo level shit.

@uninspiredcup said:

@sargentd: Engaging with them gives them credibility.

One of them repeatedly posted was a twice convicted peedophile who was having champagne at the Kremlin on Christmas, going on to promote Pro-war propaganda books aimed at desecrating the West.

Like, shouldn't be ME checking your sources for you Sarge. And this is Googling for 2 minutes. Not fucking Columbo level shit.

Scott ridder wasn't even in the video I just shared.. but again here you are doing the same thing, deflect to something else, call it propaganda, drone like behavior.

If you could take the subject matter and explain or prove why it's completely off or wrong I'd give you more credit. But as of now it's just more lazy deflection bs.

Engaging with them gives them more credibility? You'll never get anywhere by just ignoring the counter argument and labeling them stooges and propagandists. Your lack of ability to even engage with the subject matter is telling in its own. It means you have no argument, you have no way of proving what they are saying is wrong, you have to credible argument yourself, so you resort to the laziest head in the sand tactics. If anything what your doing is proving them right as far as I'm concerned.

Argue the actual ideas or message, not the person saying it.

The point of propaganda, specifically Russian is to fill he air-waves with shit to cast confusion and doubt.

Engaging with it is exactly the intended purpose. In fact, that's how bot farms work, they aren't rewarded on convincing people, they are rewarded for getting engagement.

Scott Ritter, is a propagandist, a traitor and pedophile. That's not implication, that's fact.

So no, I won't be engaging with it. These people tar themselves btw. All doing is checking the source and practically, universally, they are pieces of shit.

Huh.

Dude does that shit a lot. Remember I had some conversation with him while back, can't remember what it was about. I posted some video of Matt Walsh I think talking about it. Cup wouldn't take the video seriously because there was a commercial in the middle of it. Like, literally, a freaking advertisement with nothing to do with what was being talked about completely derailed his focus....or at least he chose to let it be derailed. As if a commercial on a radio show is some kind of egregious evil, lol.

Otherwise, cool dude. Like talking with him about Star Trek, games n shit. But bring up stuff like Russia, dude just brain-farts the eff out.

@uninspiredcup: again nobody brought up Scott ridder but you lol wasn't even in the video I shared, again drone life behavior 🤣

Normally I'd agree but people in charge give these people platforms to spout their nonsense, they keep failing upward, so the burden of labeling them stooges and propagandists falls to us. How many times have we seen a far-right radical disgraced publicly only for them to find a new home on a different platform? Keep in mind these are not people we simply dislike: these are people who are certified, proven liars and terrible people.

You can call it censorship, but we used to have standards in the media, i.e. "this person is neo-nazi adjacent, maybe we shouldn't let them say things on a medium with millions of viewers" or perhaps "this guy has a long history of supporting Russia and promoted election lies in the US, maybe we shouldn't let him on our show".

As for the second point: easier said than done, I am afraid.

It's impossible to attack the message or idea because they just morph it into something else. They attack someone else. They make a new lie. When your entire empire is built on fiction like the far-right's is, it's easy to come up with a new one.

This is why we have to go after platforms (or people). Because they keep letting the lies spread. It's why I don't like the Joe Rogan Experience; it's not because I dislike Rogan (I think he is actually kind of a cool dude), it's because he provides a platform to some pretty awful people. And instead of people hearing the idea or message, they just hear Rogan liking it and go "I like Rogan, Rogan likes idea/message, therefore I like idea/message"

Until these outlets either learn to self-regulate (preferable) or are regulated, I'm not really sure we can go after the message or idea. I wish that was the case as I do believe in free speech, but so long as free speech is abused I don't know if it's really a freedom we should all be allowed to use.

@horgen: Those that were not okey with it departed the country already. Quoting an ex-Belarussian OMON, who was interviewed a couple of years ago: "All the good people already left Belarus. What remains are people that would sell their own mother for money".

"You can call it censorship, but we used to have standards in the media, i.e. "this person is neo-nazi adjacent, maybe we shouldn't let them say things on a medium with millions of viewers" or perhaps "this guy has a long history of supporting Russia and promoted election lies in the US, maybe we shouldn't let him on our show".

Who gets to make the accusation as truth.

Can I call you a Putin Stooge or a Neo nazi adjacent bojangles and have you blacklisted from being on social media or the internet? Who decides that. Who gets to be king?

Should we be able to arbitrarily label people we don't like as anything we want and silence them. Who gets to hold that power.

"It's impossible to attack the message or idea because they just morph it into something else."

Nonsense, a statement is said, you can challenge that statement and try to prove it wrong or agree with it. There is no excuse for not challenging ideas you disagree with and instead taking the lazy asf way out of "I'm just not going to engage with argument because I don't like who said it".

That's for cowards

"Until these outlets either learn to self-regulate (preferable) or are regulated, I'm not really sure we can go after the message or idea. I wish that was the case as I do believe in free speech, but so long as free speech is abused I don't know if it's really a freedom we should all be allowed to use."

mrBojangles.. this by far is the most cowardly thing I've heard anyone say this year (happy 2024)

You have set the bar extremely high day one.. you dissapoint me so much as a fellow american.

Which is what, a million at most? So most Russian are OK with it, it seems.

If he hangs out at the Kremlin, writes anti-Western books, lies, and regularly appears on RT, yes, you can. Happily.

In your case basically just spam Pro-Russian shit in a loop for years on end. Any logical person will come to this conclusion.

Regarding The Hill, is slightly more wishy washy. The site tends to be somewhat more objective. While stuff you post (Rising) is full of misinformation and thumbnails/titles glorifying Putin making Zelensky out as doomed evil.

In fact, in that montage of thumbnails I searched above within 20 odd seconds I found misinformation. Which you unironically ran to post and show to the forum on PG.

See? Bullshit.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/02/politics/fact-check-zelensky-americans-fighting-ukraine-video/index.html

It should be noted that my fondest memory of PG was specifically your post about how Zelensky was bad for not wearing a suit with a 7 minute rant from Tucker Carlson.

While Russia was like... bombing hospitals.

Black comedy at it's finest.

Litteraly didn't happen cup. Your living in your own dillusions now friend.

*Cough*

Also rewatching that doofus it's funny how easily he manipulates the MAGA types. Like, this dude is some kinda god.

Using an old salesman trick of making statements to imprint an idea but posing them as questions. With abit of fake righteous outrage He seems to just does this in a loop, endlessly. It works. lol

God, I hope America rises above that, if not for your sake, ours.

@sargentd: Hey don't blame me, I didn't set the bar 😋 Trump, Alex Jones, Tucker Carlson, Roger Stone, and other abusers of free speech did.

The people you seem to support are the ones ruining things for the rest of us. The rich that can hire lawyers to protect themselves from their abuses are ruining it for the rest of us that actual have to live with the consequences of our actions.