Do you think the reopening up of public places is going to back fire?

It depends on a lot. If we'd implemented test and trace I'd be a lot more confident, but we decided not to implement that measure because testing raises official numbers. If some states reopen but social distancing measure remain adhered to enough to keep the R0 number around 1, then they'll be fine. If people abandon measures entirely and start crowding into bars and restaurants again, then yeah, they'll start seeing the same exponential rise in cases counts we saw at the start.

My first preference would have been to have test and trace implemented. It looks like that's not going to happen.

My second preference would have been that we'd culturally recognized the importance of social distancing measures and cared enough about our fellow Americans to adhere to them even without the orders officially in effect. It tentatively looks like right wing media has poisoned that well, also.

A lot of things could change - we could put the order back in place, we could have a cultural shift once cases rise again, or the administration could decide that test and trace is worth the rise in official numbers - but right now I'm leaning towards, "yes," a backfire is more likely than not - at least in certain states.

Second wave in a couple months? We're already still in the tens of thousands of confirmations, and the past week has not been promising. It looked like numbers were declining but they've already leveled off again. Several new hotspots are popping up in rural states that got hit late.

Forget a couple months, second waves crapping on us imminently. And we're not even remotely close to proper containment protocols. There's no test tracing set up, and our medical supply lines are still a complete joke. I of course hope it's wrong, but I'm going to predict we double the American deaths by the end of June.

This is what America is now. We can't slow down for even a few months or our system fucking collapses, so they have to beg us to run out and get sick and die, for money. Can't possibly offer security or relief to the struggling parties though, gotta make sure that fucking stock market stays green baybee.

Covid 19 isnt going anywhere regardless, its here and shutting everything down will not stop it, do it long enough and the reprocussions of such will be worse than the novel virus.

I swear some of you people think we can just shut down for another whole year and we will be nice and safe lol

Some do.

@Solaryellow: that scares me more than the virus 😆

Yes opening early without the proper protections from the impotent federal government will backfire. Our government handled this the worst.

The damage is already done and if you think people will go back to the old way of life I have some fine bridges and monuments to sell you. Cheap too.

@LJS9502_basic: the damage is already done,

So time for a 5 year shutdown boys lol ...

Nothing you say shows its better or worse to continue having buisnesses closed.

Do you have a date in mind for when its safe enough? Or are you one of the types that think everything should remain shut down untill there is a solid cure? Sounds like mutually assured destruction to me.

Well with trump in charge 5 years is probably accurate. You do know we have the most fatalities, no plan for opening other than opening and telling people to wash their hands and wear a mask, and have minimal testing and no contact tracing. Odd how other countries are already on the road to recovery but we aren't. Must be the government leader. Vote trump out!

@LJS9502_basic: Trump 2020 😆

You didnt answer my question, when is the right time to open back up

Your saying 5 years man?

Things are going to get worse if they rush to open up the world to soon. We are going to be living with this thing until a effective vaccine is developed until the virus mutates.

You said 5 years. We need to do what other countries are doing. We're not.

I need a haircut.

tbh I don't really care at this point. You're either going to get sick or you won't. The precautions we have taken in the past months--sheltering in place, insane hygiene (at least at my workplace) consisting of wiping down all surfaces, wearing of masks when not sick--are not meant for prolonged periods and frankly I would rather get sick while free than live a lesser life isolated.

I'm not going to go to city hall and start protesting with a confederate flag, but I'm ready for this to be over.

I'm worried about my 70+ year old parents, but they told me today that they are over it too.

Same.

But I am one of the "Thanos was right" crowd, so don't listen to me.

I'm done with this. Open the **** up.

Oddly enough a few here are quick to take Trump to task yet completely and purposely ignore the actions of our governors. As an example, New York is in its poor condition because of two people. Care to guess the two people? Now what is happening here in my state (not NY thankfully) is a direct result of the governor and for people supposedly not going back to the "old" way of life, they are doing it here contrary to what media outlets would like you to believe. People know getting ill is part of life and people also know the ramifications of said virus were completely blown out of proportion. Many are not falling for the ski is falling syndrome. Many are but again, many are not. How politicians reacted still baffles me.

If you can give me a reason to believe Trump and the GOP over the Facts/Experts on this one please provide it.

So far only the opposite is true,

Public Health Experts Say Many States Are Opening Too Soon To Do So Safely

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/09/853052174/public-health-experts-say-many-states-are-opening-too-soon-to-do-so-safely

Top Health Experts Paint Bleak Picture of Pandemic

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/09/853052174/public-health-experts-say-many-states-are-opening-too-soon-to-do-so-safely

Texas reports largest single-day jump in coronavirus cases

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/498214-texas-reports-largest-single-day-jump-in-coronavirus-cases

With how often the far right has been wrong on science (first corona virus response, evolution, climate change, vaccines, smoking) it's not the best track record.

Yes.
At least in the US where there's slim to zero tests being done on the public, then it'll likely flare up again.
But by all means, do reopen as long as you don't travel abroad.

I think it's insane how politically divided this issue has become in the USA, that most countries have already highly dropped the spread of the virus but the USA is still seeing a surge of increase on a daily basis.

At this point, I feel like it's too late. There's already a dumb movement and large gatherings sweeping states, so open it up. I feel in a couple of weeks when tons of people get infected in mass numbers, you'll start hearing a lot of crying. And in a couple of months, when the healthcare system collapses most countries world-wide will say, "we told you so."

It already has. There is no way to "force" a reopening and it not kill tens of thousands more people. The economy should not take precedence to people's lives.

will more people die due to more businesses opening and restrictions being lifted? certianly. i don't think anyone contests that.

will people care? hard to say. if this has taught us nothing else, it comes down to how people are affected PERSONALLY.

look, we've had 90,000 peope in the US lose thier lives over this but there is very little if any national spirit of mourning for these tremendous losses. we're more focused on how it affects our bottom lines, and when we can go shopping or got to a bar again.

given that background, i don't expect any new deaths caused by premature re-openings to affect things

This comes down to people more than anything because they want their lives back whether you agree or disagree.

A second wave will come regardless of us opening up public places again or not until there it a tested vaccine and they can manufacture enough to treat the majority of the population. Which will not happen for atleast a year if not a couple years. Suicide rates are going up, as well as the effect of more people becoming alcoholics/drug addicts and overdosing due to either breaking down being stuck inside or the depression caused by their loss of jobs. Or if they are coming out of this quarantine with a new addiction they are likely to lose their job once they can go back to it. It is a spider web of negative possibilities and cause and effect scenarios. I am not sure what the ideal solution would be, but I do not think allowing the government to force you out of work and in to debt is the answer.

Ah, so now we are at the "It is unavoidable" stage, hence why nothing should be done, as it is either to late or won't have any effect.

We don't know if those who have been through it will suffer any long term effects from it.

Any easing of restrictions will cause a surge in cases, this really isn't debatable. The US doesn't have any means to test and trace as the Trump administration has failed horribly in this regard (testing is overrated!).

What the debate will probably revolve around is this, 'Will the hundreds of thousands of deaths be worth it in the end.' As we can see in this very thread, there's a certain segment of the population that doesn't care about containment and conjures up fallacious arguments when confronted about the death toll. They fail to recognize that this issue isn't the false dichotomy that they've concocted. Our options aren't limited to locking down forever or resuming prior daily life. But then again these are the same people who won't acknowledge Trump's repeated brush off of warnings dating back to January, nor his gutting of the very department and response plan meant to tackle this issue head on.

That is a good point. And I have been reading articles about how children are having adverse reactions to it outside of the normal symptoms.

Seems to have worked in other countries...…...

All I know is that people in Oregon pretty much said "**** it" and are back out doing things. The streets and highways are clogged up again and apparently its cool to drive 10MPH under the speed limit now.

I live in the Portland Metro area in case you're wondering.

Have you ever heard the saying: Fixing the barn door after the horse has bolted?

If the leader of the free world from the very beginning would have taken this seriously, and used his power because he does have a lot of power to simply allow a lockdown weeks ago by now the cases, education, paranoia and overall ability to reduce the cases like literally every other country would have been resolved by now. Instead, the USA is pretty much late. Now they do have to re-open at the expense of having a massive surge in cases and death.

The funny thing is that for some reason there's this inane idea that by re-opening the way they want to do it, it will help boost the economy. Instead, there's going to be a massive collapse of the healthcare system in a couple of months, something that could have been avoided.

This will backfire big time, but there's nothing that can be done at this point. Too little, too late.

We still can do something! Implement test and trace like we should have started doing months ago.

How is that remotely relevant? States opening without anything to prevent new cases. How is that fixing the barn door?

More like blocking the barn door so the horses can't get back in...…….

There was a time and a supposed way to stop this virus (without waiting for a vaccine) but that's all gone.

Which leads me back to my first post again. It is unavoidable and nothing should be done to stop it.

If the necessary steps could have been taken and I'm inclined in believing as much, then it should have been done but it has gotten so far out of hand (the response) for months that it is time to acknowledge reality. The piecemeal steps taken up until now are what makes the saying relevant. States are opening and people are demanding such action because the SAHO's are now obsolete and nothing but an annoyance.

And what would have been the necessary steps according to you?

Remind you that your own President thinks testing is BS, which if had in been in place before this blew up, could have made lockdowns unnecessary.

Its only BS to Americans but it's essential for White House staff!

Good take, i agree 100%

my grandmother is 79, has worked through this entire thing because she is "essential". Works part time at the liquor store lol...

I asked her why she didn't ask to be let go because of her age, i told her she would get more on unemployment, shes high risk. She told me straight up she likes having the job to get out of the house....

It makes sense when you think about it, you get old you might have 6-12 years left tops anyway. You just want to live life, not cower in fear. I know alot of fearless old people, i'm in my upper 20's and the people around my age act like a bunch of nervous urkels. I've been over this shutdown, i didn't ask for it anyway. Now everyone just goes to the same places, walmart, target, grocery store chains, lowes, home depot, 7/11, the places deemed "essential" stay packed. There's no where else to go.

This isn't stopping covid 19, we just get covid 19 plus a bunch of people loose their livelihoods now. btw im not a big avengers fan, but i did watch that movie with my gf and we got into a really heated argument about thanos. I say hes not that bad. Hes one of those good guy villain types.

@jeezers: We have no idea when it’s safe because we don’t have widespread covid or antibody testing nor do we have contract tracing.

What ultimately is going to kill the economy is lack of consumer confidence.

Who’s getting on a plane right now? Anyone willing to sit in a stadium with tens of thousands of people and watch a ballgame? Anyone willing to stand in a packed Black Friday doorbuster line for $100 deal off the new PlayStation? Heck, I’m not even eating food someone else prepared.

If you don’t get on a plane, then the entire airline industry, the entire hotel/hospitality industry, and the tourism industries in a dozen destination vacation spots in America (including basically the entire state of Florida and all of its theme parks) are DONE. One lifestyle choice we make in the world of covid will be MILLIONS of people unemployed.

Most businesses take even a 10% hit to their customer traffic and they will start laying people off. Some just go bankrupt.

Why do you think all of these business leaders are screaming in trumps deaf ears about testing? It doesn’t matter if the governors open up if consumers are scared of what they can’t see.

We like to conveniently blame Trump but our governors are the main reason why states addressed this virus with such gross incompetence and trepidation during the past two or so months. Back in February and March a rosey assessment was painted. Politicians told us everything was fine, under control, live our lives, etc.., By the time these schmucks finally decided to do something to make it look as if leadership was strong, the damage was done. Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but all of the states (at least on each coast) should have shut it all down for 14 or 15 day period which was pushed like mad as a way for it to die out. Rather than two weeks of difficult time, these people decided months of hardship was the way to go which is a big reason why people have thumbed their nose at directives from poor leadership.

Explain to me your logic of why a lockdown (which there were never true lockdowns BTW) would not have been necessary if testing was done. For that to be true, it has to be predicated on a few things. One, sufficient number of tests would have been needed. Two, you would have needed people willing to have been tested. Three, people would have needed to know under what circumstances would they have needed a test. Four, people would still have been around others. Five, the government would have needed the trust of the people.

I'm hoping that it does not backfire.

Trump provided no leadership for the governors, so you had 50 single states response to it.

If a country can mass test its people, for the US I've heard that the minimum daily requirement for that is 500K tests a day, however most likely double that. Both time off from work to get tested, and the quarantine period afterwards if tested positive shouldn't be reason for getting fired from work. The everyone you have been in contact with needs to be tested as well.

As for point 5. Don't elect openly corrupt officials and then complain about lack of trust. Hold them responsible.

What's with people being all 0 to 100 on this

Also, just follow the damn guidelines, it's not the hard

This was more of a state's issue than anything. Each state needed an individualistic approach. NY and PA needed a similar response yet something different than S.D. One blanket approach wouldn't work everywhere. Our governors dropped the ball. Trump had nothing to do with impotent governors. The country would need a great many tests and more importantly, people willing to allow the government to test them. The lack of trust is just a general feeling of the body rather than one or few individuals. Some people wouldn't want the government to have knowledge of their sickness.

To answer this threads question, yes. Because it has.

Texas, North Carolina, Arizona see rising cases as they reopen

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/498406-texas-north-carolina-arizona-see-rising-cases-as-they-reopen

Trump wrong and making things worse as usual.

Well said.

I'm not sure how long some of you want the lockdown to continue, but we have more than one health crisis going on with the lockdown going on indefinitely. I don't know about all of you, but the lockdown isn't going to hurt me that much. I'm going to get paid regardless, and I have a backlog of games that can last me for years at this point. Fast food is still open, and I can drive to the supermarket, put on my mask, and roll the cart around for 20 minutes.

The ones most affected by this lockdown continuing indefinitely aren't the MAGAts some of you may like to call them, especially the ones in rural areas that don't need to do social distancing because they're already far apart. The ones most affected are the people that were on minimum wage before getting laid off, the people that have mental health issues, the vulnerable women and children that are being beaten by their frustrated husbands and parents, and more. Maybe the reason some of you are so eager to stay locked up forever is that like me, you also have a backlog of games that can keep you entertained until 2021 or so.

The people that are afraid to get infected will stay home even when lockdowns are lifted. In regards to people afraid that their employers will fire them if they refuse to return to work, I would actually encourage politicians to pass legislation protecting vulnerable people that choose to stay home after the lockdowns are over, whether or not that will happen remains to be seen. I already see some companies are entertaining the idea of continuing mass telework even after lockdowns are over since this lockdown has shown how many businesses were able to keep working from home.

It's so easy to blame it all on Trump. I get that some of you are afraid to blame China either because you don't want to lose their steady supply of cheap products or because you're afraid of being called racist. I also get that some of you are afraid to blame Andrew Cuomo for the death toll in New York because, for all we know, he could end up being the guy to replace Biden if Biden drops out of the race. Whatever some of you want to do in regards to assigning blame, by all means, blame whoever makes you feel better.

Some people want to take the risk, it's ok by me. I havn't exactly been staying in everyday myself.

Sorry, I am going to apologise in advance. But your description is a very selfish way of life and frankly speaking, quite disgusting.

Is your grandmother going to refuse healthcare if she falls ill? Probably not right? So that's more work for doctors and nurses. It will be one bed less for perhaps someone younger who needed that bed or a ventilator. Also, she would be risking the lives of others around her.

Because there are so many people in the US who claim to be fearless against COVDI-19, it is precisely this mentality and action that has resulted in the high number of infections and the high number of deaths in the US.

It is precisely this mentality and this so-called, 'fearlessness' that is a drag on the US economy, that is causing unemployment and death.

Have you not seen the adverts and the pleading of healthcare workers? 'WE GO TO WORK FOR YOU, YOU STAY HOME FOR US?"

If you claim that staying at home and shutting down the economy isn't stopping COVID-19 then how is COVID-19 being transmitted? Via the WiFi, or is 5G?

It's not fearlessness its actually stupidity.