Should states prioritize race when it comes to COVID treatment?

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2022/01/04/monoclonal-antibodies-shortage-has-critics-saying-theres-racial-discrimination-in-whos-getting-treatment/

Monoclonal Antibodies Shortage Has Critics Saying There's Racial Discrimination In Who's Getting Treatment

OCEANSIDE, N.Y. (CBSNewYork) – With record numbers of COVID cases in our area, hospitals are being flooded with requests for antibody treatments that were saving lives, but many patients are being turned away.

...

New York state prioritizes treatment based on age and risk factors including people from certain racial and ethnic minority groups.

A spokesman for the Health Department said:

No one in New York is being turned away from life-saving treatment because of their race or any demographic identifier. This guidance is based on CDC guidelines that show COVID mortality rates are higher among certain demographic groups, including senior citizens, immunocompromised individuals and non-white/Hispanic communities.

Critics say the race criteria discriminates.

WJS also posted an interesting opinion piece on the matter. I'm inclined to agree that with such medications in short supply, they should be allocated to those in most need regardless of immutable characteristics. It's a bizarre hill to establish/virtue signal on and doesn't abide by common/typical triage procedures.

Notable quote from WSJ;

This is unfair and possibly illegal. With these kinds of regulations, the Democrats who control New York reinforce the racial and ethnic divisions that grew during Donald Trump’s presidency. These state officials have been abetted by social scientists who collect survey data in a manner that, intentionally or not, confirms their presuppositions.

There is no question that medical factors can increase the risk of certain individuals getting diseases. Living or working in proximity to a toxic environmental site can also increase this risk. There are also certain racial-ethnic groups that are especially prone to certain diseases. African-Americans are susceptible to sickle-cell anemia; Ashkenazi Jews are often lactose-intolerant. There isn’t any study we have seen that, controlling for other factors, such as income, education and residence, shows clearly that Americans of Hispanic, African or Asian ancestry are at greater risk for severe Covid-19. There is no valid medical argument to justify New York state’s criteria.

What do you think?

If its the case, its an absolute disaster of a policy and i say this as a non white person.

If there were genetical factors that would make a person of a given race more prone to have severe desease i say give them priority, but that has not turned out to be the case.

Actually, non White People have fared worst with the virus due to socio economical factors(worse access to hospitals), not due to being more vulnerable to the virus. So offering priority for better treatment within the same hospital makes zero sense.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-once-hospitalized-black-patients-are-less-likely-to-die

Oddly enough it is widely acknowledged that being male is a large risk factor. Have they taken that as factor to assign priorities or is it only taken in to consideration when risk factors align with politics?

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19741-6

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2021/10/19/at-least-65000-more-men-than-women-have-died-from-covid-19-in-the-us/

The other funny thing is that they assign priority to the unvaccinated as well. Rewarding anti social behaviour.

Whether or not someone has taken the shots shouldn't have a bearing on whether or not they get treatment. And I don't see them getting prioritized, despite being at higher risk. Not taking an experimental drug with a nasty track record of serious side effects isn't "anti social behavior."

@eoten: read the article. Its one of the factors that gives you priority.

Are they at greater risk? Seems the story going around is that the vaccine makes Covid symptoms very mild.

@eoten: The unvaccinated are at greater risk, yes. Which is why they are given priority.

Eoten doesn't want them given priority. By now it is clear he just want people dead from this virus.

@horgen: We've lost our damn minds, man.

"This guidance is based on CDC guidelines that show COVID mortality rates are higher among certain demographic groups, including senior citizens, immunocompromised individuals and non-white/Hispanic communities."

That pretty much explains it. As long as they follow this I see no issue.

Every peer reviewed study and 1 year of huge data sets show this is false. It is no longer experimental (FDA approved) and it works very well. So well that over 95% of deaths have been only from the unvaccinated for a while now. You are typing fiction. The spread of this fiction has resulted in many deaths.

Is that what I said? No, I don't think it is. And that's a pretty fucking low thing for you to accuse anyone of.

Then your peer reviews studies are shit, and you're only listening the ones that reaffirm your preconceived notions. People have died from the shot, that's not even disputable. It is still experimental. It's been approved for emergency use authorization. Long term studies have not, and could not have been conducted. Do you really think a government bureaucracy is best suited to make healthcare decisions on behalf of the individual? What other decisions would you like them to make for you?

I know some of you people think hospitals should deny healthcare to people who do not get the shot, denying alternative treatments and therapeutics in order to force your decisions of what is best for them upon them. But that's not the country reasonable people want to live in. That's not a good precedent to set.

People have a right to choose what is best for them, whether you agree with it or not.

That's exactly the issue lol. Why are COVID rates higher for non-white/Hispanic communities? Is there "science" to back up why they are at more biological risk like the other two items listed? No, it's merely because of socio economic factors and lower vaccination rates. Look at you supporting the unvaccinated. :)

I can't find peer reviewed studies that say the vaccines/boosters do not work or are dangerous overall. I can only find dozens that say they work and the benfeits outweigh the risks.

Can you link yours so I can link mine?

A very small %. On the flip side, it has saved hundreds of thousands in USA alone. Probably over a million world wide. All peer reviewed studies show the benefits outweigh the risks.

And nearly all of those people are wrong, objectively, on this matter. Going purely by the science.

Facts do not care about your feelings.

@zaryia said:

@eoten said:

Then your peer reviews studies are shit,

@eoten said:

and you're only listening the ones that reaffirm your preconceived notions.

I can't find peer reviewed studies that say the vaccines/boosters do not work or are dangerous overall. I can only find dozens that say they work and the benfeits outweigh the risks.

Can you link yours so I can link mine?

@eoten said:

People have died from the shot, that's not even disputable.

A very small %. On the flip side, it has saved hundreds of thousands in USA alone. Probably over a million world wide. All peer reviewed studies show the benefits outweigh the risks.

@eoten said:

People have a right to choose what is best for them, whether you agree with it or not.

And nearly all of those people are wrong, objectively, on this matter. Going purely by the science.

Facts do not care about your feelings.

Did I say "dangerous overall?" Or did I say some people have severe reactions or side effects to them? Some of which include death. Are you trying to tell me this is untrue? You don't get to decide if those risks outweigh the benefits. Nor does some politician.

Has Zaryia ever said that the unvaccinated shouldn't be treated? I know that I've been firmly in the opposite camp.

Correct I am not against unvaccinated being treated.

I agree with the Health Department & CDC, and disagree with the Op-Ed from a Poli Sci and Philosophy major (What a leap of faith on my end!).

No politician decided this. The peer reviewed data did (of which you still have not posted counter studies). The science did. The vaccine saved hundreds of thousands of lives in USA alone and has significantly reduced the daily death rate here.

The benefits exponentially outweigh the infinitesimal risks for the 3 US vacc and boosters. This is a fact.

• Study finds benefits of COVID-19 vaccination outweigh risks of rare cases of myocarditis | American Heart Association
• Population-Level Risk-Benefit Analysis | CDC
• Risk Analysis in the COVID-19 Pandemic: Weighing the Cost and Benefits of Vaccines and Masks | Executive and Continuing Professional Education | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health
• FDA scientists say benefits of Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine 'clearly outweigh' the risks for children ages 5 to 11 - STAT (statnews.com)

The more people who get vaccinated the less avg weekly/daily deaths we will have. Exponentially more than the number of potential adverse reactions.

I think you and Matt misinterpreted the post and the reasoning. It's in reference to the lack of banter being displayed towards communities who chose not to get vaccinated. Not that they don't deserve treatment. Treatment, like injuries, should be triaged based on severity along with receiving medications.

Because CDC guidelines shift like a flag in the wind, what "science" is there to support preferential treatment based on race?

No, the state shouldn't prioritize by race.

just because you are brown, yellow, white, or black. Your race shouldn't matter you either got the vaccine or you didn't, if you want higher vaccination rate the focus should be to get ALL unvaccinated vaccinated. Why would you focus on specific races over other races, that's stupid. Why only give treatment to one person because they fit a color scheme over someone else.

It should go to those most in need, FULL STOP. That includes unvaccinated morons.

No, my answer will always be this: we should fix the system that creates these inequalities in the first place. This has nothing to with COVID or even overt racism; it's all about systemic issues that stack the deck against people of a certain class/demographic from the get-go, and it has more day-to-day relevance than the once-per-decade catastrophe such as a financial meltdown or viral pandemic.

But to focus on one race over another is just putting a band-aid on a severe wound; it won't fix the problem, the source of the issue. COVID vaccines and treatments should go to those that need it, period.

Yup.

Yeah I didn't want to say this when COVID first started because it could be interpreted as racism, but I had a feeling the Hispanic and migrant worker communities would be hit hardest by this, at least in California. And they have.

When you have three generations and 10+ people living under one roof in a home intended for three people, things are going to get spread. Especially when they can't afford the things they need. Especially when they don't have good insurance or access the healthcare.

It's entirely because of socioeconomic factors. You could make the case for some very specific things that race does matter and you'd be right, but on the whole race doesn't play that much of a factor in medicine. It's culture, economic status, and social stuff.

No, politicians are deciding the mandate, not peer reviewed data. Data doesn't get to make decisions, people do. We elect people, we don't elect datasheets. You're trying to shift responsibility from the individual to data, and data is very easily cherry picked.

I don't give a flying **** what studies promoted by your media outlets have decided. They don't get to make the decision for the individual. Studies would also tell you that being overweight increases risks for heart diseases, diabetes, and other problems. Should we mandate sending people to fat camp next? If you can claim the benefits of forcing someone take a shot are for their own good and outweigh the risks, tell me, where does that mentality end? The answer is it doesn't.

People having individual rights really seems to get under your skin.

Post the counter studies then. You just made this up.

Take the L. All the data flies against your twisted Flat Earther views.

You can just take a weekly test if you if you are uneducated and don't want to take the shot. But some of these people don't want to do either.

Very irresponsible. Almost all deaths are now due to the unvaccinated. Dying to own the libs!

I never said otherwise. I understand they have the right to make up 95%+ of Covid deaths. The deaths get under my skin though, true.

Seriously, have you ever once stepped outside your little bubble of CNN and CDC and actually looked for a counter point? Or do you just shovel it all down without a second thought? Both Pfizer and Moderna are banned in one capacity or another for various age groups BECAUSE OF ADVERSE EFFECTS INCLUDING DEATH. To sit there and tell me there's no risks involves or that it's perfectly safe is being completely disingenuous. And where there's such risks, people need to be allowed to exercise their right to free choice.

And yeah, people having the free choice to disagree with you really gets under your skin.

I have linked no CNN study. Yes, I literally have tried to do your job for you and find counter studies.

And I can't.

Indulge me. Make it so you're doing anything but taking the L in a Covid thread by finally linking a study after years!

I never said there's no risk. I said the benefits exponentially outweigh the risks. To the point where all medical organizations and most doctors recommend them. Highly. We're talking hundreds of thousands of Americans not dying because of the vaccines. How many deaths directly associated due to the vaccine again?

It's such an astronomically low chance that, as studies have stated, you are better off taking the shot.

Them disagreeing with facts and science doesn't get under my skin, it just makes me think of them as idiots.

Them dying gets under my skin. Yes. LOTS of deaths due to anti-vaccing.

It doesn't matter how low of a chance you think it is. It's a statistically extremely low chance for a healthy adult to actually die of Covid. Even more astronomically unlikely with Omicron. So your hardon for mandates have little or nothing to do with what is or isn't a high chance.

The risks exist, so it's the individual's right to choose whether or not they want to take them. Not yours, not Biden's, and not Fauci's.

Please do not say think, I linked the data.

Also I consider your lack of posting counter-citation, when asked for a 3rd time, a concession. You have lost this debate, and anything past this point is me just wanting to crush your further.

This is true. But it spreads so much that we have 850,000 deaths. Just 2,000 alone on Friday. The Vaccine has reduced this number by hundreds of thousands. And these are just US numbers.

This wasn't a mandate thread, you are the first person to utter those words. But I'll discuss it anyway. A lot of uneducated people are not taking the vaccine, and this is resulting in 95% of our daily deaths (1,500 average). Hundreds of thousands of Americans have died since they didn't feel like taking the vaccine due to right wing mis-information primarily. What a shitty reason to go.

This is their right to die from being dumb. By the way, can't you skip the vaccine and take a weekly test under the mandates? Sounds like Karens.

Nope.

Your attempts to insult people for not taking a vaccine sure as hell aren't helping your case. You have a low opinion of them? That's a "you" problem because I don't think very many of them give a shit what you think about it. Piss and moan till you're blue in their face, you won't be doing much else about it.

Who cares, I'm not a politician lmao. The peer reviewed data is on my side, you are right and I'm wrong. This is extremely simple stuff. I can insult the ignorant who disagree with reality. Do you think it is not normal to talk shit about flat earthers? This is a worse version of that.

Your refusal to post counter-citation seals the deal.

And they'll just continue to die. Nearly every death is from the unvacced this year and the last. I'm just telling them to do what's right. I'm just stating the facts. I'm not forcing anyone, I'm not a politician or judge.

It's not my fault they don't like facts.

I was the one thay asked for the unvaccinated to be given lower priority for treatment.

I didnt say deny treatment. Just, if you need to choose give preference to those that chose to help others and themselves.

This is called personal responsibility. Do whatever the **** you want with your life. Dont get vaccinated, organize parties, subject your family members to higher degrees of transmition.

But society is not your personal nanny and we dont need to take care of those that dont take care of themselves.

And this doesn't only go for conservatives, its the same for racial minorities (in case they also dont take the vaccine), believers in traditional medicine or any other person expecting to take without giving back.

With treatments and therapeutics so effective at treating it, why should someone be denied those alternatives in order to force them into taking something they don't want to? Where do those kind of behaviors end? Where does the line get drawn after that? It sounds like a fast track to a pharmaceutical tyranny. Maybe we shouldn't be dehumanizing people for having a different opinion about what is best for their health, especially when the government and their lackies have been as dishonest as they have been on the matter.

@eoten: because you end up competing for medical resources with people that despite taking the vaccine still need them (like very old people, immunocompromised people, people with important co-morbidities).

Sometimes the sheer number of hospital patients forces hospital to postpone critical surgeries too.

If resources were unlimited this would not be a problem, but why an 89 year old, or a person with asthma or a person undergoing chemotherapy be treated the same as a non vaccinated?

Lower priority doesn't mean no treatment for you. It means that if the other person is in the hospital with serious injury despite their best efforts to protect themselves, then they come first.

@ghost_of_phobos: You are so sarcastic and edgy. You must be the coolest teen in your school!

@nirgal: You say that because that's what big pharma owned media brainwashes you to think.

Nobody is competing for medical resources though. Hospitalizations are not high or overflowing with Covid patients. Most Covid patients aren't even in the hospital for Covid in the first place, and several catch it while they're there. They're tested for it incidentally, multiple times during their stay and several don't test positive until after being there a few days either. The media narrative that hospitals are overflowing, and anyone needs to ration or prioritize care is bullshit.

And if there's a shortage of anything, you may want to look at the Biden administration refusing states to buy the drugs necessary to provide treatments so they can create a higher demand for the vaccine. Should government deny people treatments to coerce them into getting a shot while treatments are actually available, and highly effective? Doesn't that sound to you like they're more concerned with selling injections than actual healthcare?

You're against the vaccines, aren't you?

Nope, if people want them, they're free to get them.

Then stop arguing against them.

Except, I'm not. First off, I call out the gross disinformation about their effectiveness, and the white washing of the side effects and risks as a means to try to coerce more people into taking them. Disinformation spread by media they sponsor and politicians they lobby. Be honest about the vaccine, and maybe more people would trust them. But when you try to bullshit people by claiming there aren't risks, or people aren't dying from them, you lose credibility, and trust.

And then I am against you people dehumanizing people who do not accept the same risks as you do. Dehumanizing people for trusting their own immune system over drugs and medication. Do you also dehumanize people who prefer to eat organic foods over GMOs? I am against you people insulting, demonizing, and bashing people who do not think government should force people to take a shot. I am against you people who believe people should be removed from society, or be held down and a needle forced into their arms if they say "no."

I am for the simple right to choose what people put into their own bodies. Which is why I'm not even opposed to people using drugs recreationally, though personally, for the same reasons I take as few prescription medications as I possibly can, I'll avoid recreational drugs too.

Almost every death is from the unvaccinated.

Staggering COVID-19 Statistic: 98% to 99% of Americans Dying are Unvaccinated - AU/UGA Medical Partnership (usg.edu)

What was the disinformation? Citation?

How does the two compare? Covid the illness and the vaccine against it.

For instance here there are reported 231 deaths in vaccinated people, but not necessarily due to the vaccine. With almost 9 million vaccines given. On the other hand, not even 450 000 cases of Covid has been reported yet over 1300 dead from it. Or < 0.0026% vs 0,29%.

Is it the opposite where you live?

Disagreed. It's a good policy to give, not based on racial background but socioeconomic factors, which usually ends up dividing on racial background anyway. Minorities tend to be more exposed to covid, while whites tend to stay in doors, isolated and even able to quit their jobs for extended periods. This isnt possible for minority households, its a choice between starving, paying rent or covid. Honestly I think they can fine tune it more, and give the vaccine to those living in specific neighborhoods first. That way there's less of discrimination angle, because there are poor people of every background.

I really, really hope that this was some kind of joke, but even then, it's not really funny. That's a pretty big accusation to accuse someone who wishes for people to be die from the virus. I understand there's disagreements and some others are questioning about the vaccination, but saying it's clear he wants people dead from this virus!? I'm sorry, but that's really uncalled for.

Ibuprofen (street name, Advil, and related brands) cause 16k deaths alone in the US, plus a ton of other health-related issues. I wonder what how that stacks up against vaccine-related deaths.

Can't believe mods have deleted a post of mine about big pharma and nazi communists on the pretext of being against forum rules.

@blaznwiipspman1: this would be a better idea. But they would have to improve access to treatment in poor neighborhoods, not assign priorities within all hospitals.