US had prepared for pandemic

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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#1 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

Surprising who was best prepared

Unfortunately, like anything else, when no immediate threat was present, it was hard to justify the continued spending and measures.

However, I hope that going forward, the culture changes.

Taiwan got hit very hard by SARS. They struggled to manage it and had a large number of cases and deaths from it. But that challenge, led to them changing quite a few things and now they likely have the best response in the world to this virus. They've been screening all visitors to the country well before covid 19 hit and they have made sure that essential manufacturing of medical supplies was not outsourced to China, but rather they have their own production capacity. Currently, they're making 10 million masks a day. Hopefully, both the US and Europe can learn from this.

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mattbbpl

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#2 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23046 Posts

Of the changes that arise out of this. I hope the death of the notion that a smaller and less capable government is desirable for it's own sake is among them.

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mrbojangles25

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#3 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58413 Posts

Well that is kind of surprising, especially since it was ol' Dubyuh that got it done.

And he READS! Who knew it.

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LJS9502_basic

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#4 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts

Hey I think I went on record saying I'd take GWB back over trump...…….

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Jacanuk

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#5 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

The left in 2006-08 --> By early 2006, his average rating was near 40%, and in July 2008, a poll indicated a low of 22%

https://news.gallup.com/poll/116500/presidential-approval-ratings-george-bush.aspx

The left in 2020 --> YAAAA Bush is da MAAAAAAAAAAAN, let´s get him back.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bush-in-2005-if-we-wait-for-a-pandemic-to-appear-it-will-be-too-late-to-prepare/ar-BB12btSV?li=BBnbcA1

And the left´s hypocrisy is once again shown to the world.

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#6 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23046 Posts

@Jacanuk: I don't think anyone is calling Bush a great president overall, just in comparison to what we're dealing with now.

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#7 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

@Jacanuk: I don't think anyone is calling Bush a great president overall, just in comparison to what we're dealing with now.

Considering Bush had 22% and on avg 40% albeit in his second term, it´s still puzzling how some on the left can think he is better than Trump.

Trump has not lied to the world and thrown us into a war we are still fighting today.

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LJS9502_basic

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#8 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@mattbbpl said:

@Jacanuk: I don't think anyone is calling Bush a great president overall, just in comparison to what we're dealing with now.

Considering Bush had 22% and on avg 40% albeit in his second term, it´s still puzzling how some on the left can think he is better than Trump.

Trump has not lied to the world and thrown us into a war we are still fighting today.

trump lies every damn day...…….

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mattbbpl

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#9 mattbbpl
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@Jacanuk said:
@mattbbpl said:

@Jacanuk: I don't think anyone is calling Bush a great president overall, just in comparison to what we're dealing with now.

Considering Bush had 22% and on avg 40% albeit in his second term, it´s still puzzling how some on the left can think he is better than Trump.

Trump has not lied to the world and thrown us into a war we are still fighting today.

Oh yes, it's a real puzzle....

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#10 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@mattbbpl said:
@Jacanuk said:
@mattbbpl said:

@Jacanuk: I don't think anyone is calling Bush a great president overall, just in comparison to what we're dealing with now.

Considering Bush had 22% and on avg 40% albeit in his second term, it´s still puzzling how some on the left can think he is better than Trump.

Trump has not lied to the world and thrown us into a war we are still fighting today.

Oh yes, it's a real puzzle....

Ok, what policies did Bush have that is better than Trump?

Or are we going by personality?

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Serraph105

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#11 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 36044 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@mattbbpl said:

@Jacanuk: I don't think anyone is calling Bush a great president overall, just in comparison to what we're dealing with now.

Considering Bush had 22% and on avg 40% albeit in his second term, it´s still puzzling how some on the left can think he is better than Trump.

Trump has not lied to the world and thrown us into a war we are still fighting today.

The comparison with Bush was basically a president who could be charitably given a rating of a C, but a more honest rating of a C-, to the last president (Clinton) who could be given a B- to a B+, both depending on a ton of different factors (that's for both Bush and Clinton), not to mention people who came before Clinton, like Bush's father, who also did a better job, maybe. Rose tinted glasses and all that.

Today people are comparing that C- president to a guy, Trump, who's more of D or an F. At least that's my take on the matter.

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#12 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

Of the changes that arise out of this. I hope the death of the notion that a smaller and less capable government is desirable for it's own sake is among them.

I'm hoping that this kills as much support for fiscal austerity in economic downturns as possible. We need far less Ron/Rand Paul's in this world. But who knows, the moment a democrat pops in to office they'll crawl out of the woodwork like the cockroaches they are.

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deactivated-5ecb2e9232c57

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#13 deactivated-5ecb2e9232c57
Member since 2019 • 653 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

Of the changes that arise out of this. I hope the death of the notion that a smaller and less capable government is desirable for it's own sake is among them.

Yeah.

IMO Trump's administration should get a lot of blame for this crisis simply due to leaving a large part of the US federal government short of staff.

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mattbbpl

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#14 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23046 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@mattbbpl said:
@Jacanuk said:
@mattbbpl said:

@Jacanuk: I don't think anyone is calling Bush a great president overall, just in comparison to what we're dealing with now.

Considering Bush had 22% and on avg 40% albeit in his second term, it´s still puzzling how some on the left can think he is better than Trump.

Trump has not lied to the world and thrown us into a war we are still fighting today.

Oh yes, it's a real puzzle....

Ok, what policies did Bush have that is better than Trump?

Or are we going by personality?

Pandemic preparation, for one.

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Sevenizz

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#15  Edited By Sevenizz
Member since 2010 • 6462 Posts

Trump is 10x better than GWB. GWB could barely articulate a sentence on his own and mostly was on script. Trump communicates very well and talks like a person - he goes off script for better understanding to the average American.

People continually get Trump wrong and it doesn’t help that the media have a bias against the GOP which exacerbates their ignorance.

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Vaasman

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#16  Edited By Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15581 Posts

Why do I even need this umbrella for the rain? I'm not even getting wet!

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Jacanuk

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#17 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

Pandemic preparation, for one.

You got me there.

I am sure if Trump had a book read to him, that he would also do like Bush did after someone read the Spanish flu to him and told him that it was a real story.

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LJS9502_basic

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#18 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@mattbbpl said:

Pandemic preparation, for one.

You got me there.

I am sure if Trump had a book read to him, that he would also do like Bush did after someone read the Spanish flu to him and told him that it was a real story.

He shouldn't need a book to be read to him...……...but I agree with the underlying point that he is incapable of the job.

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#19 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 11031 Posts

@mattbbpl: What?

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#20 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 11031 Posts

@LJS9502_basic: Says who...you?

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#21 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts

@vfighter said:

@LJS9502_basic: Says who...you?

If someone has to give you a book to read...……..you're incapable. That's a fact. Why do you trumpers have such low standards?

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jeezers

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#22 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

Anyone notice how alot of liberals now like the old establishment rhinos of the GOP... they hate Trump so much that they all became Romney, Mcain, and Bush fans, and they all suck compared to trump. and i barely lean right,

I liked obama more than mcain and romney

I like trump more than all of them though.... Its weird tho seeing so many on the left prop up some of the worst politicians of the right, i guess those are the kind of republicans the left respects. War mongering neo cons.

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#23 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

@Sevenizz said:

Trump is 10x better than GWB. GWB could barely articulate a sentence on his own and mostly was on script. Trump communicates very well and talks like a person - he goes off script for better understanding to the average American.

People continually get Trump wrong and it doesn’t help that the media have a bias against the GOP which exacerbates their ignorance.

right on the money^^ lol

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#24 JimB
Member since 2002 • 3872 Posts

There is plenty of blame to go around and it involves the government over the past three decades and the people who served in government. Congress wants another commission to look into this current crisis. Actually it will be a CYA commissions to beat back the citizens who are demanding answers. We will get the same answers we got from the Warren Commission and the 911 Commission reports. The real questions will not be investigated. There are a number of items that have occurred that do not pass the smell test the least of all is Trump. At the top of the list is China, the Media, and Democrats in congress.

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deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d

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#25 deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d
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"A review of federal purchasing contracts by The Associated Press shows federal agencies largely waited until mid-March to begin placing bulk orders of N95 respirator masks, mechanical ventilators and other equipment needed by front-line health care workers."

https://apnews.com/090600c299a8cf07f5b44d92534856bc

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#26 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@JimB said:

There is plenty of blame to go around and it involves the government over the past three decades and the people who served in government. Congress wants another commission to look into this current crisis. Actually it will be a CYA commissions to beat back the citizens who are demanding answers. We will get the same answers we got from the Warren Commission and the 911 Commission reports. The real questions will not be investigated. There are a number of items that have occurred that do not pass the smell test the least of all is Trump. At the top of the list is China, the Media, and Democrats in congress.

Don´t forget that the congress IE the democrats also want to begin investigations into impeachment 2.0.

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#27 JimB
Member since 2002 • 3872 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@JimB said:

There is plenty of blame to go around and it involves the government over the past three decades and the people who served in government. Congress wants another commission to look into this current crisis. Actually it will be a CYA commissions to beat back the citizens who are demanding answers. We will get the same answers we got from the Warren Commission and the 911 Commission reports. The real questions will not be investigated. There are a number of items that have occurred that do not pass the smell test the least of all is Trump. At the top of the list is China, the Media, and Democrats in congress.

Don´t forget that the congress IE the democrats also want to begin investigations into impeachment 2.0.

Epically the Democrats, anything to get Trump even if they have to sacrifice the citizens of the country to get him out and get the White House back.

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deactivated-610a70a317506

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#28 deactivated-610a70a317506
Member since 2017 • 658 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

Of the changes that arise out of this. I hope the death of the notion that a smaller and less capable government is desirable for it's own sake is among them.

Is it OK if I still want a smaller, but MORE capable government?

I don't know of anyone of any political persuasion except anarchists, that would argue federal preparation for a pandemic is outside the constitutional power of the federal government. My point being, our politicians did not avoid taking steps to prepare because they feared libertarian and small govt conservatives would seek to stop it, much less succeed in stopping it.

Our political leadership/establishment was started down a path of preparation by no less than the POTUS. And despite no legal or moral opposition to the effort, they have chosen to prioritize many many other issues far less beneficial to the safety and well being of the citizenry.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your point, but it seems you want to give the idiots in charge even more power and control?

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#29 deactivated-610a70a317506
Member since 2017 • 658 Posts

So, ol idiot/nazi/war-criminal GWB was quite prophetic on this subject.

I look forward to the follow up article that tells us how our political leadership, the establishment dems and repubs, found this less of an imperative than all the ridiculous shit they allow our money to be wasted on.

I'm sure I will be waiting a long long time before that article is written and published.

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#30 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@JimB said:
@Jacanuk said:
@JimB said:

There is plenty of blame to go around and it involves the government over the past three decades and the people who served in government. Congress wants another commission to look into this current crisis. Actually it will be a CYA commissions to beat back the citizens who are demanding answers. We will get the same answers we got from the Warren Commission and the 911 Commission reports. The real questions will not be investigated. There are a number of items that have occurred that do not pass the smell test the least of all is Trump. At the top of the list is China, the Media, and Democrats in congress.

Don´t forget that the congress IE the democrats also want to begin investigations into impeachment 2.0.

Epically the Democrats, anything to get Trump even if they have to sacrifice the citizens of the country to get him out and get the White House back.

Yup, it´s like the democrats have switched off their brain.

https://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/ohio-state-rep-planning-to-refer-crimes-against-humanity-charges-against-president-trump

I mean seriously? also, this "congresswoman" clearly don´t know that if this actually happened, the shitstorm that would happen and that the US has never recognized it or would send any American citizen there.

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LJS9502_basic

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#31 LJS9502_basic
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@JimB said:

Epically the Democrats, anything to get Trump even if they have to sacrifice the citizens of the country to get him out and get the White House back.

Conversely why do Cons turn a blind eye to his misdeeds? Why a cult of personality over the country?

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#32  Edited By mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23046 Posts

@comeonman said:
@mattbbpl said:

Of the changes that arise out of this. I hope the death of the notion that a smaller and less capable government is desirable for it's own sake is among them.

Is it OK if I still want a smaller, but MORE capable government?

I don't know of anyone of any political persuasion except anarchists, that would argue federal preparation for a pandemic is outside the constitutional power of the federal government. My point being, our politicians did not avoid taking steps to prepare because they feared libertarian and small govt conservatives would seek to stop it, much less succeed in stopping it.

Our political leadership/establishment was started down a path of preparation by no less than the POTUS. And despite no legal or moral opposition to the effort, they have chosen to prioritize many many other issues far less beneficial to the safety and well being of the citizenry.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your point, but it seems you want to give the idiots in charge even more power and control?

This strikes me as the same "trim the fat" calls that we've heard for decades. That is, someone wants the sugar high of cutting taxes/government without acknowledging the trade-offs involved.

If you want to make the government smaller AND more effective, that's great and I'll back those efforts 100%. But you'd better be able to state how you intend to make that happen because we've seen this runaround all too often.

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#33 judaspete
Member since 2005 • 7324 Posts

@Jacanuk said:

The left in 2006-08 --> By early 2006, his average rating was near 40%, and in July 2008, a poll indicated a low of 22%

https://news.gallup.com/poll/116500/presidential-approval-ratings-george-bush.aspx

The left in 2020 --> YAAAA Bush is da MAAAAAAAAAAAN, let´s get him back.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bush-in-2005-if-we-wait-for-a-pandemic-to-appear-it-will-be-too-late-to-prepare/ar-BB12btSV?li=BBnbcA1

And the left´s hypocrisy is once again shown to the world.

Ok, most liberal are not saying they would be happy to have Bush back, just that they would prefer him to Trump. I will give conservatives some credit for consistency in this regard. If someone like AOC became president, they still wouldn't have a single nice thing to say about Clinton or Obama.

Personally, if he does make it through his presidency without starting a war, I will rank Trump over Bush.

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#34 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts

@judaspete said:

Ok, most liberal are not saying they would be happy to have Bush back, just that they would prefer him to Trump. I will give conservatives some credit for consistency in this regard. If someone like AOC became president, they still wouldn't have a single nice thing to say about Clinton or Obama.

Personally, if he does make it through his presidency without starting a war, I will rank Trump over Bush.

All that means is they are too partisan since both those presidents did well in office. So essentially you're saying cons don't care about reality...…...just the letter R.

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#35 deactivated-610a70a317506
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@mattbbpl said:

This strikes me as the same "trim the fat" calls that we've heard for decades. That is, someone wants the sugar high of cutting taxes/government without acknowledging the trade-offs involved.

If you want to make the government smaller AND more effective, that's great and I'll back those efforts 100%. But you'd better be able to state how you intend to make that happen because we've seen this runaround all too often.

Please forgive my confusion, but I'm not clear on what you are referring to when you say "This strikes me as the same trim the fat calls...". Perhaps you can explain what you meant, in context of this discussion about our political leaders' abysmal failure to prepare for a pandemic, despite W's call to action.

However, in the interest of our discussion, I believe that we can agree that the federal government should be adequately funded to achieve its proper roles and duties. The debate is about what is a proper role and/or duty to be carried out by the federal govt. I feel confident that you and I, and basically anyone that is not an idiot, can agree that making preparations to protect the nation in the event of a pandemic is a proper role for the federal govt.

And yet, our political leaders failed to follow through on their duty to properly prepare, despite being called to do so by no less than the POTUS.

It is my belief that our political leaders find it easier to use their power, and our money, to pander to donors and reliable voting blocks, rather than fulfill their duty. Furthermore, we have allowed the federal govt so much power, and reach in to our economy and our personal lives, that these so-called leaders have ample opportunity to pander, rather than effectively lead. And, unfortunately, the voters tend to reward their pandering, which gives them what they really want, which is to stay in office and accumulate more power and wealth to themselves.

I would encourage you to always be mindful that government is made up of people. People with all the frailties, ambitions and selfishness inherent in our species. The more power and authority we grant to our government, the more temptation there is for those that make up the govt to abuse that power and authority.

“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy...”

― Alexander Fraser Tytler

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mattbbpl

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#36 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23046 Posts

@comeonman said:
@mattbbpl said:

This strikes me as the same "trim the fat" calls that we've heard for decades. That is, someone wants the sugar high of cutting taxes/government without acknowledging the trade-offs involved.

If you want to make the government smaller AND more effective, that's great and I'll back those efforts 100%. But you'd better be able to state how you intend to make that happen because we've seen this runaround all too often.

Please forgive my confusion, but I'm not clear on what you are referring to when you say "This strikes me as the same trim the fat calls...". Perhaps you can explain what you meant, in context of this discussion about our political leaders' abysmal failure to prepare for a pandemic, despite W's call to action.

Perhaps the phrase you'll recognize the strategy best by is, "Starve the Beast."

This is a strategy used to implement tax cuts without the required trade-offs(which without tradeoffs are always desireable) in an attempt to force the politically negative trade-offs after the fact once the deficit rises. It's often couched in phrasing like, "trim the fat," meaning that no cuts or trade-offs are required - only trimming unnecessary waste is involved. However, that's rarely the case.

However, in the interest of our discussion, I believe that we can agree that the federal government should be adequately funded to achieve its proper roles and duties. The debate is about what is a proper role and/or duty to be carried out by the federal govt. I feel confident that you and I, and basically anyone that is not an idiot, can agree that making preparations to protect the nation in the event of a pandemic is a proper role for the federal govt.

I agree that pandemic response is one such interest. I'm not arguing otherwise and instead raise it as an example that shouldn't be cut.

And yet, our political leaders failed to follow through on their duty to properly prepare, despite being called to do so by no less than the POTUS.

It is my belief that our political leaders find it easier to use their power, and our money, to pander to donors and reliable voting blocks, rather than fulfill their duty. Furthermore, we have allowed the federal govt so much power, and reach in to our economy and our personal lives, that these so-called leaders have ample opportunity to pander, rather than effectively lead. And, unfortunately, the voters tend to reward their pandering, which gives them what they really want, which is to stay in office and accumulate more power and wealth to themselves.

This is just an argument that our current leadership is incompetent. Once again, I agree. We've had very little coordinated response because many of the mechanisms in place to have one were either cut or ignored.

I would encourage you to always be mindful that government is made up of people. People with all the frailties, ambitions and selfishness inherent in our species. The more power and authority we grant to our government, the more temptation there is for those that make up the govt to abuse that power and authority.

This is the part that I really wanted to respond to because you need to take this a little step further. Government is made up of people as are the other countervailing forces in society such as businesses, unions, and civil organizations. By continually insisting on a smaller government, you weaken it's power relative to those other countervailing forces which in turn weakens it's effectiveness. I would encourage to think in broader, more complex terms.

“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy...”

― Alexander Fraser Tytler

See above

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#37 Gaming-Planet
Member since 2008 • 21064 Posts

There are some documents from the Pentagon that reveal that the military warned us of a pandemic and that we would have shortages in face masks and ventilators. Uncanny and sad that no one took it seriously.

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#38 deactivated-610a70a317506
Member since 2017 • 658 Posts

@mattbbpl:

Pandemic preparation spending is not at risk. Our leaders failed to fund it in the first place. And our current crop of leaders are no large degree better or worse than any in the recent past. In fact, many of the leaders today have been in office for decades.

Yes, all human endeavors are made up of people. But only government is allowed to deprive an individual of their property, their liberty, and even their life. My association is voluntary with all of the non-govt groups you list, your "countervailing forces". But if I want to live in a civil society, unless I support anarchy or live in exile, I must make myself subject to the power of government.

I pursue a little happiness by dinking Coca Cola. I have no fear that the Pepsi police are going to kick in my door and punish me for possessing Coca Cola. However, if I were to pursue happiness by imbibing in an intoxicant not approved by the govt, in the privacy of my home, putting no one in jeopardy but myself, I may find myself face down on the floor of my house, handcuffed and headed towards a lot of trouble.

My point, in the context of this thread topic is that preparation for a pandemic is an exercise of federal govt effort and power that is unarguably in the best interest of the people and the nation. And yet the people that make up our federal govt failed in that effort, while pissing away the public's money on stupid, worthless shit, and exerting federal govt power in society where it shouldn't be exerted. Why, why in the name of the flying spaghetti monster would we not question how much power we hand over to people that have demonstrated they cannot take care of the essential before all else.

I would further argue that this is but one of many such examples that demonstrate the current state of dysfunctional govt at the federal level, and the failure of our political institutions and organizations to produce competent leaders.

I look forward to your reply.

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#39 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23046 Posts

@comeonman said:

@mattbbpl:

Pandemic preparation spending is not at risk. Our leaders failed to fund it in the first place. And our current crop of leaders are no large degree better or worse than any in the recent past. In fact, many of the leaders today have been in office for decades.

Yes, all human endeavors are made up of people. But only government is allowed to deprive an individual of their property, their liberty, and even their life. My association is voluntary with all of the non-govt groups you list, your "countervailing forces". But if I want to live in a civil society, unless I support anarchy or live in exile, I must make myself subject to the power of government.

I pursue a little happiness by dinking Coca Cola. I have no fear that the Pepsi police are going to kick in my door and punish me for possessing Coca Cola. However, if I were to pursue happiness by imbibing in an intoxicant not approved by the govt, in the privacy of my home, putting no one in jeopardy but myself, I may find myself face down on the floor of my house, handcuffed and headed towards a lot of trouble.

My point, in the context of this thread topic is that preparation for a pandemic is an exercise of federal govt effort and power that is unarguably in the best interest of the people and the nation. And yet the people that make up our federal govt failed in that effort, while pissing away the public's money on stupid, worthless shit, and exerting federal govt power in society where it shouldn't be exerted. Why, why in the name of the flying spaghetti monster would we not question how much power we hand over to people that have demonstrated they cannot take care of the essential before all else.

I would further argue that this is but one of many such examples that demonstrate the current state of dysfunctional govt at the federal level, and the failure of our political institutions and organizations to produce competent leaders.

I look forward to your reply.

We did fund it. We planned for it. The past two administrations both planned for pandemics, leaving behind a pandemic response team (which was fired) and a pandemic playbook (which was ignored). Past administrations planned for it, the current administration failed to act on those plans (and even cut resources for it). You can say they pissed away pandemic funds for "stupid shit" which you don't identify, but we had resources and plans for it! Tired college-dorm-room-libertarian generalities don't change that.

The idea that only the government can deprive a person of property, liberty, or life is false on it's face. To use your company example, tobacco companies hid the harmful effects of their products for decades, willingly sacrificing lives for dollars. And as for your assertion that your relationship to them is voluntary, that very same example illustrates otherwise with secondhand smoke. Such externalities exist with other products as well such as oil and asbestos. Not to mention aggregate market forces such as monopsony wage effects, or monopoly price effects. There are more than two power brokers at play, and more than three relationships between them involved.

Why, why in the name of the flying spaghetti monster would we not question how much power we hand over to people that have demonstrated they cannot take care of the essential before all else.

Because they're the ones capable of handling national pandemics (and other issues as well - pandemics is but one example). Again, I'm not advocating ALL power to government, but instead where it makes sense and is necessary due to deficiencies in other players. "Government is bad," is too simplistic of a worldview.

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#40 deactivated-610a70a317506
Member since 2017 • 658 Posts

@mattbbpl:

So you are refuting the premise of the article that

"...but it was not sustained. Large swaths of the ambitious plan were either not fully realized or entirely shelved..."

"But as time passed, it became increasingly difficult to justify the continued funding, staffing and attention,..."

I'm sure all the shortcomings in the current response are just another case of Orange Man Bad.

And please spare me the Evil Tobacco company rant. We are not children to be protected by the govt from our bad choices. No one was forced to smoke. Oil and asbestos?? Oil and all its byproducts increase our standard of living, indeed powers our standard of living. And the harmful nature of asbestos was not known from the beginning. We got smarter and found safer alternatives.

Lastly, I never said government is bad. Simply that it is a necessity with potential for abuse, and therefore must be closely limited in its scope and power.

But hey, you continue to advocate for a federal nanny to wipe our nose, change our diaper and keep the big bad businessman from taking advantage of us.

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#41 JimB
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@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:

Epically the Democrats, anything to get Trump even if they have to sacrifice the citizens of the country to get him out and get the White House back.

Conversely why do Cons turn a blind eye to his misdeeds? Why a cult of personality over the country?

The Democrats were so busy impeaching the President they stopped doing every thing else. The ignored the warnings on the Covid-19 And criticized Trump on any action he took to keep us safe. They own their actions and there policies that put the United States at risk, all for political correctness.

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#42 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@JimB said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:

Epically the Democrats, anything to get Trump even if they have to sacrifice the citizens of the country to get him out and get the White House back.

Conversely why do Cons turn a blind eye to his misdeeds? Why a cult of personality over the country?

The Democrats were so busy impeaching the President they stopped doing every thing else. The ignored the warnings on the Covid-19 And criticized Trump on any action he took to keep us safe. They own their actions and there policies that put the United States at risk, all for political correctness.

Spot on Jim

I wonder how it would have looked with Cuomo hadn´t tried to act tough guy and pave his way for a future presidential run, and the Democrats actually tried to work with Trump to solve this crisis instead of impeaching him for utter BS, and even now trying to lay the groundwork for an impeachment 2.0.

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#43  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts

@JimB said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:

Epically the Democrats, anything to get Trump even if they have to sacrifice the citizens of the country to get him out and get the White House back.

Conversely why do Cons turn a blind eye to his misdeeds? Why a cult of personality over the country?

The Democrats were so busy impeaching the President they stopped doing every thing else. The ignored the warnings on the Covid-19 And criticized Trump on any action he took to keep us safe. They own their actions and there policies that put the United States at risk, all for political correctness.

Why was trump golfing and ignoring the warnings? trump is the president. That's HIS job. Also while I know his cult base doesn't give a damn...…...he should have been removed from office for using his position to further himself. And I'd be pissed if the House hadn't done anything.….much like I'm disgusted with the Senate of which McConnell is a traitor.

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#44  Edited By Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:

Epically the Democrats, anything to get Trump even if they have to sacrifice the citizens of the country to get him out and get the White House back.

Conversely why do Cons turn a blind eye to his misdeeds? Why a cult of personality over the country?

The Democrats were so busy impeaching the President they stopped doing every thing else. The ignored the warnings on the Covid-19 And criticized Trump on any action he took to keep us safe. They own their actions and there policies that put the United States at risk, all for political correctness.

Why was trump golfing and ignoring the warnings? trump is the president. That's HIS job. Also while I know his cult base doesn't give a damn...…...he should have been removed from office for using his position to further himself. And I'd be pissed if the House hadn't done anything.….much like I'm disgusted with the Senate of which McConnell is a traitor.

You keep disregarding facts and the constitution?

But i will be happy to point out the truth here

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2020/03/28/cuomo-new-york-quarantine-would-be-federal-declaration-of-war/#31fd77f02292

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/04/01/us/politics/ap-virus-outbreak-shutdown-qa-1st-ld-writethru.html

President Donald Trump has the biggest megaphone, but it's governors and local officials who will decide what type of restrictions to impose on their citizens to try to slow the spread of the coronavirus. The Constitution largely gives states the authority to regulate their own affairs.

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#45  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts

@Jacanuk: You keep posting about New York. I'm talking about the country. It has no bearing on this AT ALL. Stop deflecting.

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#46 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:

@Jacanuk: You keep posting about New York. I'm talking about the country. It has no bearing on this AT ALL. Stop deflecting.

And as I pointed out, Trump can only do federal sanctions, which he did on the 12th where he blocked travel from EU and other hot-zones as one of the first.

Trump addressed the U.S. from the Oval Office in a prepared speech, striking a more somber tone and telling Americans to be "very, very careful."

Which btw, was condemned by all democrats and some experts, which just makes it even more puzzling since clearly that is the way to go.

But experts noted that the virus is already spreading across the United States, meaning that stopping travel from Europe, while possibly marginally helpful, is far from the most urgent need.

And again

President Donald Trump has the biggest megaphone, but it's governors and local officials who will decide what type of restrictions to impose on their citizens to try to slow the spread of the coronavirus. The Constitution largely gives states the authority to regulate their own affairs.

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#47 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts

@Jacanuk: LOL unsubstantiated comments. However, you're wrong trump could have done more and he's criticized because he had the ability to do so.

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#48 mattbbpl
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#49 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

I hope that keeps you warm at night Matt. Because we are not talking about carrots dying here.

and nice MEME of Bad Excuse, because the state could not have thought for themselves right?

Also

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/02/us/politics/trump-super-bowl-interview-coronavirus.html

Funny, how Trump had to DEFEND barring travelers from China, sure it was not enough, but the democrats and your side did not say "it´s not enough" you called it a bad move

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/business/china-travel-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article

So keep up pretending that this is all on Trump.

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#50 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts
@LJS9502_basic said:

@Jacanuk: LOL unsubstantiated comments. However, you're wrong trump could have done more and he's criticized because he had the ability to do so.

So you are disagreeing with the constitution?

Good to know, I thought you had done a pledge to uphold it?