What would your solution be for the Disinformation Crisis?

Disinformation is one of the largest crises facing western civilization at this point. Taking their toll in both human lives and even the stability of our own democracies. This manifests in a myriad of ways including

• Getting people to support the aggressor (Russia) over the defender, somehow thinking Ukraine (or NATO) is the perpetrator of this conflict.
• Vaccine hesistancy turning COVID into one of the worst pandemics in human history.
• Baseless attacks and conspiracy theories over the scientific community.
• Immense cost in both lives and capital. In canada alone COVID misinformation in the past 9 months cost 2800 lives and over 300 million CAD in hospitalization fees.
• It leads to a massive distrust among experts and the general establishment in favor of laypersons. And... Chiropractors.
• January 6 in the USA, January 8 in Brazil.
• Legislation over empty fearmongering. Just look at all the anti-transgender rights bills this year. Or Florida's latest policy which emptied all the libraries.
• It can encourage treasonous behaviour, with citizens encouraging to undermine their own state in favor of a foreign state such as russia.

The last point in particular is really notable in Finland. Finland is doing fine, but they are well aware of Russian propaganda. As a countermeasure, Finland is heavily invested heavily in modernizing their education, to the internet era. Starting in Preschool and all the way to high school, training students to identify misinfomration is a part of the curriculum. The results of this program have paid off, as Finland are once again ranked as the number one nation in terms of not falling for mis and disinformation in europe. And done so for the 5th year in a row.

But misinformation continues to be a serious concern for large chunks of the world. Finland's methods are great, but there is still more to do. And then there is the fact that they might not work in the rest of the world. Just look at the outcry after Twitter merely fact checked Trump.

What policies, if any would you advocate for in order to curb the spread of misinformation?

As for me. I would not only push for Finland's educational curriculum which promotes media literacy. But I would also promote more literature in general. Poor reading comprehension, makes people far more susceptible to disinformation, which is why so many quack youtubers and people in the blogosphere, can constantly misinterpret academic papers while nobody catches them on it. People aren't reading books that much. Why is that? Find out what books resonate with modern youth, and which ones don't. Improving reading comprehension is critical to fighting disinformation too.

Even the game developers can probably help by stop holding player hands so ****ing much. I am replaying the old Ultima games, and it is amazing how much the games respect my intelligence.

Honestly, nothing. They want to be that way, and the ones I've seen pull themselves out of it are outliers.

Your time and resources are better spent elsewhere.

Sneak up behind the right wing trolls shitposting on social media and do this:

...then bask in the shortly lived respite it offers.

Massive investment in critical thinking skills development in education at all levels.

Recall legislation forcing all politicians to be subject to recall votes based upon a suitably high but still achievable recall %.

Minimum 50% reduction in the pay of politicians, term limits, and investment quarantine while in office.

Massive reform to both tort and criminal law that can lead to major sanctions, including criminal indictment, for abusing the legal system with trivial law suits. Also required is clearly established time periods for scheduling, hearing, etc. with the intent of speeding up the wheels of justice and automatic disbarment for lawyers exhibiting a pattern of lies in court.

Completely trash all rules on campaign finance. Burn to the ground all PACs etc. Limit corporate and individual contributions to a reasonable amount. Subject everything to full audit with criminal liabilities.

Standards for journalistic integrity such that a clear definition of news is required, unlike entertainment, or you cannot claim to be a news organization and are subject to $ penalty for non-compliance. Persistent non-compliance results in revocation of license to operate (needs a relatively high bar though that includes materiality and frequency)

Lowering the standards for slander, etc. and increasing the penalties.

I can go on and on, if you want.

All we really need to do is take money out of politics. This misinformation Republicans are constantly spreading is meant to benefit the wealthy and it's financed 100% by them.

Funding the hell out of math education. If you get good at abstract proof based math, not the color by numbers stuff currently taught in school, it will change your life. It's not all wrote instruction following; it is an incredibly creative art and I think no human gets through it without becoming a better thinker in all ways. It was like getting glasses but for the clarity of my thoughts.

Better education. More well-rounded education. Gotta get kids thinking critically at an early age, because once they hit puberty I'm afraid it's too late for many of them, especially those that are not going on to higher education.

This Andrew Tate thing has really shined a light on just how many kids are influenced by far-right radicals as well.

I was raised in a pre-internet age, went to a good K-12 education, and went to college....and I am thankful because while I'm not immune to it, it's made it a lot easier for me to go "Wait, hold up, let me go verify this" instead of just believing everything I read or hear.

A lot of kids these days don't have the same experience I had, and if someone they like tells them something, they'll just believe it.

Also this.

If we take corporate interests out of politics, that would dramatically improve a lot of things.

People don't really understand just how much influence people like, for example, the Koch family has in the world.

Bingo

Far-left is focusing on wokeness and sensitivy training, and that's you know done with the best intention I guess?

But if you just get kids thinking critically, they'll just logic their way to why racism is bad, why it doesn't matter if your classmate is black, etc. and you won't alienate more moderate or conservative folks.

All that beautiful naivete they have at a young age will turn into simple acceptance when they get older instead of ignorance.

I am glad I see a lot of agreement on the fact that we need to better educate our people on critical thinking skills. It is what Finland, and the rest of the nordic countries seem to be trying, and it seems to work. Money out of politics is a good point, too. A lot of political woo-woo we see is directly from companies bribing politicians (with smoking and now fossil fuel companies being the most infamous).

However, I just want to point out that blaming Republicans for disinformation is not productive. Misinformation is a pandemic across all countries and political coalitions. Furthmore, there is arguably more pseudoscience and nonsense in the left than there is on the right. The only reason it might seem differently is that the nonsense is on the left tends to get pushed to the fringes. There has been no leading figure to normalize Disinformation on the left like Trump.

Left Woo: Anti-GMO, Anti-Nuclear, Lysenkoism, Overselling Climate Change, Magic Crystals, Homeopathy, Indigo Children, Quantum Woo, Astrology, Anima Mundi, Magic Energy, Dolphin Woo, Sacred Geometry, Law of Attraction, Human Design, Vitalism, refusal to accept obesity as a disorder.

Right Woo: Vaccine Hysteria, Creationism, Climate Change Denial, Trans validity Denial, Mental Illness Denial, Clean Coal, Abiotic Oil, Ivermectin Hype, Faith Healing, Scientific Racism and conspiracy theories against the scientific community.

These are some VERY good points. I believe these could all help in reducing the spread of disinformation. Do you also include Reading comprehension skills among t he critical thinking skills?

Def this. Since the Ukraine war seen so many proported "journlists" that are just propaganda.

Closed RT news across most countries, but with Twitter, Youtube etc.. still seep through the cracks with many of them here, in the West. Namely Republic types. Infowars gobblegook, outcasts and eccentrics.

Elon Musk didn't help, straight up conversing with them as buddies. Kim Dotcom for example.

@Maroxad: "The only reason it might seem differently is that the nonsense is on the left tends to get pushed to the fringes."

That's the goal, man. The difference is the left mainstream has rejected them while the right mainstream has embraced them (US centric viewpoint, globally things stack up differently). They've told their adherents, 'This is ok, even good!" This is what they want.

In most countries I believe it is the same, although the rightwing view isn't as extreme as in US.

Yeah, in the US, the right wing are definately worse about this than the left wing and centrists.

The political right isn't necessarily anti-science. Angela Merkel is a right winger (and a chemist). But sadly, between Trump, Self Help Books and "Triggering the Libs", I fear disinformation is getting increasingly normalized.

Yup, in the vegan circles I am a part of. Spreading disinformation, even to promote veganism, is heavily frowned upon. We want a movement rooted in accurate information, not lies. There is no need to lie to promote our values. We got plenty of evidence as is.

The biggest correlation seems to be Populism however, which isnt too surprising. Since populism usually relies on simple solutions to complex problems.

Interestingly enough, Anti-GMO sentiment seem to be getting kicked out in the left wing circles. So in my little list I wasn't sure if I wanted to add it. But I wanted to keep it in for the time being. I tend to see nothing but praise for GMOs these days. With the exception of green parties where it is more controversial (usually due to protecting small farmers against big agriculture). That said most of the GMO hesitancy I see, as in asserting they are harmful to one's health, come from the right these days. But these are just based on personal anecdotes and should be taken with a grain of salt.

Have you ever read the story of Bartleby The Scrivener? Dealing with these people is like dealing with Bartleby.

They are a lost cause. Irredeemable. No amount of effort can shake them from their beliefs. Not worth the trouble to even try.

While I’d like to say it’d be so simple a solution as to better educate and instill our populace with critical thinking skills, I find the proliferation of mis/disinformation is grounded in a psychological predisposition to embrace a bias to enable a preferred worldview.

I know very well-educated, intelligent individuals who are taken by lies and disinformation, and I don’t think that’s much the main consideration for them. My father, for example.…..he’s an optical physicist. Incredibly intelligent and well-educated, he has patents in optics he designed that are orbiting around the planet. He certainly meets the requirements for the solution presented here, and his entire professional life and discipline necessitated critical thinking. Yet, he “believes“ (for one) that the election was stolen in 2020 despite all evidence to the contrary. I put believe in quotes because I don’t think he actually does believe it, he just accepts it as true because it offers an out and alternative to a reality he simply doesn’t want to accept otherwise…..that democrats are in power, which, in his opinion, their policies will soon lead to the destruction of the country.

My point is, I think it’s a mistake to grant those who embrace disinformation as being oblivious victims who have been unwittingly duped, and that truth and facts are the ultimate arbiters of solving this problem, if only we could find a way to give these people the intellectual tools to exercise proper discretion in determining that truth. Some simply don’t want it…..they want to live in the reality they want, truth be damned.

That’s a psychological block…..I honestly don’t see how you can ever defeat something like that. You can’t force people to acknowledge the truth.

@MirkoS77: While I don't think a lot of the adults can be swayed much. We can prevent younger generations from falling into their pitfalls. Teaching them critical thinking and spotting disinformation from elementary or even pre-school has shown positive results.

Finland as well as other Nordic nations have made this abundantly clear. Media and Scientific Literacy vary heavily from european state. With people in nordic countries scoring far higher on media literacy than countries in other parts of europe that ignore media literacy. Don't beleive me? Just look at the gap between various countries,

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4291508/

Edit: of course everyone won't be immune to disinformation. There are psychological allures to disinformation. BUT what we can do is reduce the risk of people falling prey to misinformation and disinformation. And thus reduce the ammount of people who refuse to engage in reality. A state's job is not to ensure that its people can succeed, but rather to ensure that as many people succeed as possible. Humans are imperfect, and we should reduce risk factors as much as possible.

Thing is, I think a significant amount of people willingly embrace disinformation to enable those psychological allures, they don't fall prey to it. Unfortunately, I find this to be a natural inclination of humans; a means of self-preservation and a protective tendency to shelter and render one's own worldview immutable from outside influence when truth conflicts with it. Actual truth becomes an inconvenience to one's identity; subservient and secondary to psychological necessity in the protection of that identity, if that makes any sense.

Perhaps why adults are harder to budge than the young, but the young will grow old, and I'm skeptical any early steps in rectification to combat disinformation would still be effective in the long-run when up against basic human nature that seems to harden as the years pass. Could be, and not to say we shouldn't strive to take these measures, only to say that the allure, psychologically, of disinformation strikes me to hold far more purchase as we grow more resolved in our convictions with time and seek means to validate them. Even reaching those when they're young may not be enough, but I agree it is definitely worth trying.

Education is the most important. Critical thinking is crucial. Thinking outside of the box shouldn't be shamed. No matter what, we have to keep an open mind.

Fortunately, we are seeing success happen in countries like Finland, Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Ireland and they are getting desireable results.

A society where 20% are susceptible to disinformation is better than a society where 50% are.

A number of items that were deemed to be disinformation turned out to be correct. The big question who determines what is disinformation?

Facts do.

Then all sides of a question or theory must be presented to determine the facts.

And yet some people take personal opinions and run with them.....

We kinda do that.

1. First we take research, and make an initial quality check (searching for conflicts of interests, plagiarism and so on)
2. Then we find relevent academics in the same area of expertise.
3. Then those experts will analyze the paper to see if it is worth the analysis, methodology and interpretion adheres to academic standards in a process known as peer review.
4. Then we have a board take a look at it to see if the paper is actually worth anything.
5. After that the paper is published, where its value might be used for further research improving its validity. Might even be used for meta-analyses and systemic reviews.
6. Using these filtered studies mentioned in 5. Scientists and other experts might come to an agreed conclusion. Using other competing papers to form a scientific consensus.

Of course, when the typical anti-science crowd gets their stuff on youtube, they skip every single step here. And buy into pseudoscientific rhetoric. That wouldnt even pass the first step. This is why they do it. They can use science's stellar reputation without having to adhere to its principles.

Covid didn't come from the Wuhan Lab, Global Warming is going to destroy the planet, Hunter Bidens Laptop was Russian Propaganda. Scientists who have a different prospective or finding on a on a topic get their findings smothered and ridiculed. Science is not a consensuses but fact it has to be a proven fact.

Evidence still suggests COVID came from nature. It is still the dominant theory. Wuhan Lab Leak is not just as openly ridiculed as it was in the past. As there is now some... weak evidence to support the hypothesis.

You are strawmanning what scientists are saying in regards to global warming and climate change.

Hunter Biden's laptop is just a boring story and a nothingburger. People voted for JOE Biden, Not Hunter Biden. Which is why I don't particularly care about when people bring up Ivanka Trump either, unless there is CLEAR government involvement.

And here is a typical anti-science theme. Conspiracy theories. You are right that bad science gets ridiculed, That is the first step. Unfortunately, the pseudoscience you see on YouTube is just that. Crap that would fail the first check. So they publish it on YouTube where they can use their credentials as a scientist or doctor, to peddle disinformation. Without having to adhere to the rigorous standards held by the scientific method.

Only possible solution is civil war followed by extermination of certain political philosophies then strict government control if all media. Unfortunately for many of you thus would entail your extinction as overweight purple haired transformers screaming won’t stop an AR15.

@Skarwolf: Why the random call for violence in a thread about education?

Fist of all I don't refer to You Tube for science and all science is only theory until proven to be fact. As far a Hunter Biden it is not a nothing burger. Climate change is real but global warming is not as bad as it is being portrayed. Global cooling is what will affect life on this planet more drastically. Carbon is being attacked as the villain when is as essential building block for all life on the planet. In fact the global warming at this point in time is only theory.

@JimB:

"Carbon is being attacked as the villain when is as essential building block for all life on the planet."

I'm sorry but is this a joke or are you for real? Because this is literally one of the most stupid arguments I've ever read online and that's saying a lot.

"In fact the global warming at this point in time is only theory."

You should probably try to understand the difference between "hypothesis" and "theory".

@Maroxad: who called for violence? I stated the current situation in the USA. Or did you forget the lunatics that tried to overthrow the government last year?

You were clearly fantasizing about violence right there in your previous post. And arguing it as the "only possible solution".

And there was no attempt to overthrow the government last year. The Jan 6 Coup was over 2 years ago.

Maybe you don't but a lot of people do, which has turned the whole thing into a meme of its own.

We don't use the term fact in science. Scientific Theories are an explanation for an aspect of the natural world, that has been repeatedly tested with the scientific method. A theory explains the Whys about why the Scientific Laws are the way they are. Gravity, Climate Change (of which Global Warming is a part of), Evolution are all scientific theories and all backed up by overwhelming evidence.

The Hunter Biden Laptop is a nothing burger. Again, people voted for JOE Biden, not Hunter Biden. If Joe Biden's Laptop is worrying, I would be more worried about Ivanka's business dealings with China, which would be far more concerning, except Ivanka Trump is again, not the person the electoral college voted for.

Carbon Dioxide traps heat causing a greenhouse effect, you can test this yourself if you wish. It isnt hard to set up an experiment with soot, some ice and see which ice cube melts first. That experiment, alongside myriad of others provide overwhelming evidence in favor of the greenhouse theory of climate change.

Yeah this is what many on the far right have called for. Sadly for them, their scooters and low education aren't well equipped to win a civil war. Hell they tried to overturn an election a few years ago, and failed miserably.

Right leaning counties have a higher obesity rate. Higher obesity rates in these counties can partially be associated with GOP policy. Pick a better insult.

Calling for violence. How expected, coming from the side that makes up nearly all domestic terror in modern history.

The above disinformation and straight up fiction is exactly what the OP is talking about.

People are completely brainwashed into thinking fiction is real due to political tribalism. It's crazy. I think the best way to combat it is simply better education.

@Skarwolf: Boogaloo boys... smh

And no, the USA is not on the verge. Nor does your violent fantasies have anything to do with this thread.

@Skarwolf: Where do you live because it's obviously not the United States. Wow what a take.

We need to break up big tech and ensure big government can't use Big Tech to censor information it doesn't want on the web. We should never give the control over what information can be shared online to the government. China does this, we should know what that leads too. It's not about disinformation, it's about regulated information. Keep the web free for all.

I live in superior china. I’m not sure why you wannabe communists don’t just move here ? Only a matter of time before usa or parts of it are provinces of our country

@zaryia:

Yeah this is what many on the far right have called for. Sadly for them, their scooters and low education aren't well equipped to win a civil war. Hell they tried to overturn an election a few years ago, and failed miserably.

Lol the vast majority of millitary personal are right wing. I'm sorry but if a civil war did happen the left would get mudstomped.

The military follows the Constitution, not political powers. Also the military has various ideologies.

Yet the vast majority are Conservative.

38 % per your link. That's not a vast majority and I was in the military so I don't think I need to listen to you.

You must not have served our country. That's embarrassing. What was your excuse? Bone spurs?

As the US is the source of majority of this nonsense that then spreads to other countries via social media, all you need to do to fix it is to reinstate the "fairness doctrine" so that the so called "news" outlets would get shut down for spreading lies (instead, they just do whatever the **** they want and claim "it's entertainment" as an excuse when they get sued).

A civil war over the delusions of a conman? Hardly. If a civil war occurs, it will be an ideological struggle that holds basis in fact.

Most Americans roll their eyes and laugh at the gullible tools that believe what Trump says.

I'm so terrified of these people

@sargentd:The government isn't using Big Tech to censor the internet. The big tech companies do that themselves, usually in accordance with Section 230. A law that arguably exists to protect free speech on the internet. By serving as a liability shield.

And Trump's 2016 campaign is arguably what began the disinfo epidemic here in the west. It was already a thing in countries like India. But Trump marked when it started becoming really bad in the west. Given that Trump is a conman who thrives on disinfo, anything he would do would probably make it worse.

Disturbingly enough, much of the disinformation we see usually stem from a single person or a few people.

In fact, a strong chunk of the disinformation we saw regarding COVID came from only 12 people. With a good chunk of them are Osteopaths and Chiropractors >_> We call them the Disinformation Dozen.