DF: Why The Return To 30FPS Is Inevitable

Story

“Last week saw the release of two new games that do not support 60 frames per second gaming on PlayStation 5 or Xbox Series consoles, Gotham Knights and A Plague Tale: Requiem. Many would argue that one of the greatest wins from the new wave of consoles has been that the majority of titles support 60fps - or even 120fps - representing a game-changing improvement over the last-gen standard 30fps. The question is why this brace of titles do not support this option and whether it signifies the beginning of the end of 60fps as a standard for console gaming.”

“So, as the cross-gen malaise gives way to titles only addressing the current consoles, we should expect to see fewer titles running at 60 frames per second - it is inevitable. 60fps is no longer an automatic given, it becomes a design element developers need to work around and plan for more diligently. Based on what we've seen so far, I think the biggest surprise is that we are already seeing titles facing CPU challenges. In the case of Gotham Knights, it's difficult to understand why a relatively basic open world is causing these problems but looking at A Plague Tale: Requiem's multitude of rats, or examining how CPU intensive Unreal Engine 5 is right now (even on high-end PCs!) there are valid reasons why 60fps may not be attainable - and ultimately we need to trust the developers to deliver what's best for the game. And if performance really is a top priority, the PC platform will always be there for you.”

“Why we've seen a proliferation of 60fps and 120fps game modes over the last couple of years is largely down to a cross-generation console development period of unprecedented length. A combination of a vast installed base of last-gen machines, along with their architectural similarities to the new wave of machines has given developers and publishers the means to create games for console old and new in tandem, as opposed to farming out sub-par ports for older machines - as has happened in prior console transitional periods. The need to support platforms with CPUs as weak as the AMD Jaguar means that the processing power is instantly there to at least double performance on the latest console hardware. The graphics side of the equation is more scalable still.”

So 30fps will become standard, with 40fps “performance modes”. At first I thought we were gonna need Pro consoles with substantial GPU upgrades to get us back out of this 30fps hell… But as we’ve seen these 30fps games running on PC, and as Richard says in the article, the CPUs can’t handle these games. We need a MUCH higher CPU frequency…3.6MHz with SMT on isn’t gonna cut it on UE5 titles.

sigh…

Not inevitable, A Plague Tale Requiem is by no means a well optimized game. These aren't the kind of graphics that warrant needing a $1500+ graphics card to get 60fps.

So that’s why Sony is releasing a new PS4 looking game onto PS5 with Ragnarok.

I have been saying this since before the consoles launched. Decent hardware for cross-gen but only peaking at 12TF and poor RT performance. Not well suited for the next evolution in games rendering. Gotta go PC or wait for the Pro consoles to get a quality experience.

Even then, they will not be enough. PC will have surpassed those by leaps and bounds before they even release.

Meh. I’ll survive. 🤷‍♂️

Thanks Nintendo.

I don’t care if this is sarcasm. Coming from you, I’ll take it

Nintendo was right all along. They said Sony and Microsoft were pushing the industry forward too fast and that we needed to slow down. Said it would make it harder on devs to make money cause would cost an insane amount more budget wise. This would cause AAA to make safe games like Ragnarok, etc.

Disgusting

Rofl maybe on crapsoles. Certainly not on LordC.

I will steal @BassMan's 4090 and run everything at 144fps if this happens. There is simply no way in hell that i am going back to 30fps. These kind of frames are for systems that weren't made for gamers, the Switch is a good example.

It's a bummer, but 30fps is fine for most games when sitting couch distance.

I actually think the Dreamcast may have the most 60fps games of any console I own. Coming at a transition time, it got a lot of PS1 ports with the framerate bumped up.

Hopefully the PS4 will hold back this generation long enough to allow us to enjoy 60 FPS a bit longer.

It sucks because graphics are at a level that I would be fine with last gen looking games running at higher frame rates and resolutions with some graphical improvements, instead of the 30fps.

But GamersTM have been crying that games don't look next gen enough, so here you have it guys, you got your 30fps games. Congratulations!

Its not fine. It doesn't matter how far you're sitting, its shit at any distance.

@BassMan: Ha! Maybe I've just spent all these years as a console gamer convicing myself, "This is fine. It's FINE! IT'S FINE!!!"

You mean to tell me we're in yet ANOTHER console generation where target performance won't actually be the target performance because developers keep prioritizing graphics over performance... just like they've always done?

Boy who could have seen that except for anyone who had bought a console before and watched it not meet those target performance benchmarks just a few years after release...

60 fps should be a given at this point when you're spending $500+ on a system with decade old advancements being billed as the new hotness such as a solid state drive.

@goldenelementxl: Big one coming:

GoW: Ragnarok cannot run at 4k/60fps.

I’m not sure anything outside of racing games will… Not natively.

60fps needs to be an option, one way or another. Even if that means dropping the resolution even further. But DF is insinuating that the CPU is the hang up with UE5, not the GPU. So resolution drops won’t do much there…

Thanks AMD

Sony leading the pack once again. 4K/40hz is by far the best solution for games on current gen hardware.

AMD you screwed us over this gen.

So I was right that the CPUs in these consoles are gimped too.

@dabear: Literally no AAA with great graphics runs at 4K/60 on the XSX or PS5.

The console standard of this gen is 4K/30 or 1440p/60.

Dynamic, checkerboard, upscaled, 1518p, 1620p, etc = pretty much 1440p in practice.

Of course there are exceptions but those are the games with inherently bad graphics.

The only exception is Sony first party titles (GOWR, Horizon FW, TLOU, R&C:RA etc.) that have the gorgeous 4K/40hz mode.

@Mozelleple112: That’s cause those are crossgen titles that don’t push the system like DF stated in the article. You can’t even tell the difference between the PS4 and PS5 versions of GoWRagnarok.

They are around the 3700X level. Not a bad CPU, but not exactly future proof. At the end of the day, these are only $500 boxes. You get what you pay for.

Unpopular take: Well it's about time. Setting aside gotham knights (that looks like a technical misfire) we finally have a game that looks like it actually is pushing the hardware. I hope to see more of it.

Playing PS3 and 360 games (in terms of simulation) at higher framerates is not progress. That's all the AAA sector is at the moment.

Consoles are, at the end of the day, a fixed spec and the target framerate will always be a developer decision. Hopefully this is only the start and we start to see more games push the hardware on the PS5 and XSX (and justify it of course) with not only better graphics, but also better simulations that push the CPU side too (and the SSDs of course which is, as we all know, where most of the processing is done :P j/k).

At the end of the day what i really want to see is a game that brings even a high end PC to it's knees, struggling to hit 4K 30 even with DLSS/Xess/FSR, with a modern CPU crapping it's pants just trying to run the simulation at 30FPS AND it's clear as day why. I want a new Crysis...something truly state of the art.

Not really, they are fine for targeting 60 fps. Its a Zen 2 based cpu like the Ryzen 7 3700x only ever so slightly slower. There are a bunch of different reasons why 30 fps has shown up more so recently.

Its a mixed bag, you have incompetent ability to optimize, like Gotham Knights. Then you have devs who want to push the graphics and resolution to the point where you are stuck at 30fps because of the gpu limits not the cpu.

You also have to also realize that in the PS5 and XSX, their gpu's are not able to provide a true 4k non compromised capable experience. Prime example of the facts is the Pixel Fill rate of the XSX is only 116 GPixel/s while the plain Jane RX 6800 is able to do nearly 2x the fill rate which is 202 GPixel/s. Let alone the poor ray tracing performance of the RDNA 2 architecture in general. Both console's gpus are slower than a RX 6700xt

what is nintendo going to do after developers go back to 30fps on high graphic games?

really sony and xbox? lmao look at pc. should gaming go back to ps3 levels in 2022?

more like nin is cheap bastards and makes a ps3 level handheld for 350 bucks in 2022.

series s is cheaper and over 5x more powerful. let that sink in.

"Great" is pretty objective. But, a lot of games on XSX run at 4k/60FPS.

lmao at you gamers. 30 fps gen after gen but now its not acceptable.

gamers just expect to much from these developers.

we want better graphics but we want 60fps and 4k. no excuses.

Once games completely move on from crossgen, reality's gonna kick in. Performance modes are already dialing back. 40 fps is the new 60 on console 😂

they are indie titles and cross gen games.

@SOedipus:

Atrocious

First of all, that's not true - and even if it was, what does that have to do with anything? Especially since... so is GOW Ragnarok!

You keep moving the goal posts, and continue to fail.

Lets wait for digital foundry video about god of war. the internet said the same thing about horizon forbidden west but there was many differences.

I don't follow tech. Thought games were almost totally GPU bound. Would I see much improvement from a Ryzen 5 2600X to a 7 5700X? Sometimes I'll check the CPU load while playing a game and see it at only about 20 percent. Ordered an Asus AMD 6800 today.

he said above that no AAA budget game likeratchet and clank or even flight sim was 4k/60fps. only cross gen like hfw,god of war ect.

look at returnal xbox fans laughed at it because it was 1080p at 60 fps yet its a next gen title with next gen physics.

Depending on what you're playing and at what resolution, yes. You would see a very large improvement at 1080p or 1440p in the majority of games.

Also, many are using upscaling and dynamic resolution. So, they don't count.

Well a game like tunic I think is 60fps/4k lol

Go back and re-read his comments. Then, go read my link. Everything you and he said is false.

Wrong. Again.

Seriously, making sh*t up to justify your "hallmark PS5 title" running at 30fps is weaksauce on an epic scale.

ok I get it can't run at 4k 60fps.

but games that high detail can't run at 4k 60fps.

maybe games like tunic

so again show me a xbox game that comes close to god of graphics at native 4k 60 fps.

True, I don't follow Digital Foundry that simply lowering resolution isn't an option.

I'd rather go back to 1080p.

1080p/60+fps > 4K/30fps