@HoolaHoopMan said:
@MirkoS77 said:
Because (and this isn’t targeted at Hoola), that’s generally the fallback rebuttal to such a position as you’ve taken.
It’s not as if a case cannot be made towards the possibility that these changes are ideologically motivated, concordant with very specific positions and statements Druckman has made about fighting back against the sexual objectification of characters in the gaming industry, and also who has taken sides with Anita Sarkeesian, who, well……the less said about her manner of politics, the better. It’s at least a possible motive to explore, but is always frustratingly blocked by appeals to immaturity, incels, etc, even standing in light of evidence that has come directly out of Neil’s lips.
Funny thing, the original TLoU is one of the few games whose characters are incredibly realistic. Objectification doesn’t ever enter my mind. It feels as if Druckman is using ND as his own personal ideological promoter, for why are these changes needed? Perhaps not, but the evidence is certainly there to hold up such an argument. I wish some people would argue the evidence instead of dismissing a case predicated upon it solely because of whatever reason. It’s intellectually lazy.
Honestly, his position could have been stated without calling people broads and using derogatory language. If people find alterations in appearance to be a game changer there are ways to discuss it. Starting the conversation saying that 'we can't have attractive girls' and referring to them as broadsis a pretty piss poor opening and will generally mean we're dealing with an adolescent.
Also, did we even know the age of Triss in the original or are people just making assumptions at this point? It's one of those things where I think people can justifiably make a decent point, but then people we get people (djoffer123) swing the pendulum into cartoonish territory.
A valid point, and all true, but it doesn't negate the fact that there have been many mature, well-considered, presented, and evidentiary substantiated positions alluding to his point, infantile as it may have been initially stated, which are immediately discarded under the guise of incel/basement dweller/virgin/misogynist/take your pick. I've seen this countless times, and have been the target of it myself. Even Neil and Naughty Dog employees aren't past going to the bottom of the barrel in addressing this criticism in the most intellectually lazy and juvenile way imaginable.
As for Tess's age. Sarah I'd estimate to be anywhere from 9-11 in the original game, to which Joel states (as he and Ellie are riding around the college campus, after she asks if he attended), "No, I had Sarah when I was fairly young". That would imply Joel was anywhere in the range of 18-22 when he had her. At the latest in the prologue, he's in his late 20s to early 30s. 20 years later, late 40s to early 50s. Tess, by her model, presence of character, energy and attitude, I'd wager is early to mid 30s. I don't buy the argument that "the technology wasn't sufficient enough to make her look her age, which now we're seeing" as I've seen tossed around as justification. It easily was, and the main progresses we've seen have mostly been in more of the intricacies and nuances of expressions, lighting, etc. Frankly, Tess looks like a 10 year-on meth addict. One of those chicks you see in those progressive meth mugshot compilations.
Is she more detailed? Sure. Less attractive? A bit. She's not the only model affected. Joel appears neutered and less intimidating in his physicality, Ellie appears nigh 20. Bill, Sam, Henry, all remain to be seen. But the changes are there. Perhaps to bring parity to the sequel, I fully am open to that...…but that states nothing as it's a sequel where we have proof of Neil's decisions to lessen breast sizes of their motion capture actors. Can you wager a guess why when you take into account his adoration of Anita and speeches given?
It's not a big deal, it's not going to affect my enjoyment (and I imagine PC mods will arrive that will revert the faces to the older models), I just like discussing it and exploring the philosophy that may be underlying these alterations. It's fascinating to me.
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