Xbox Series S holding back next gen and Gotham Knights, dev says

Xbox Series S is holding back ‘entire generation’ and Gotham Knights says dev

A Rocksteady developer has described the Xbox Series S as a ‘potato’ that has ‘hamstrung’ modern games on next gen consoles.

To most people the Xbox Series S is the best bargain of the generation, especially when combined with Xbox Game Pass. It’s significantly cheaper than the Xbox Series X and yet runs all the same games, with the only apparent drawback being no native 4K support and a lack of a disc drive.

However, on paper it is considerably less powerful than either of the more expensive next gen consoles and one developer claims that it’s actually holding back the entire generation, since it becomes the lowest common denominator that all multiformat games must support.

The suggestion comes from Lee Devonald, the senior character technical artist at Rocksteady, makers of the original Batman: Arkham trilogy and the upcoming Suicide Squad game. He claims that an ‘entire generation of games [are] hamstrung by that potato’ and that it’s ‘not much better’ than a last gen console.

Devonald has since deleted his entire Twitter account, so his comments are very obviously not endorsed by Rocksteady or anyone else, but they do mirror concerns about exclusive games on the Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5 still having to run on the Xbox One and PlayStation 4.

This clearly holds back their design, since the last gen consoles don’t have an SSD drive for fast loading, let alone the other technical advancements, and Devonald is saying that the Xbox Series S is almost as bad.

‘Multi-platform games always have to optimise for the lowest performer’, said Devonald, before pointing out that ‘Microsoft won’t let you launch on one without the other.’

Devonald got onto the subject by responding to the news that Gotham Knights only runs at 30fps and does not have a performance option for 60fps, as many modern games do.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/10/18/xbox-series-s-is-holding-back-entire-generation-and-gotham-knights-17584273/

Also:

https://www.gamingbible.co.uk/news/xbox-series-s-holding-back-multiplatform-newgen-games-20221017#:~:text=Menu-,Xbox%20Series%20S%20is%20holding,new%2Dgen%20games%2C%20claims%20developer&text=A%20Gotham%20Knights%20developer%20took,with%20its%20%22potato%22%20GPU.

I remember a certain user arguing with me a few weeks back about this very same topic.

Not long now before the Series S is discontinued, once devs give some pushback on MS and tell them to bite the big one on developing for the Series S, it will go bye-bye.

Old and debunked. :P

Old and debunked? The Metro article is barely 24 hours old.

This is good news for Switch and the New Super Nintendo Switch.

@mysticaldonut:

If PC's can scale so can consoles. Just sayin. :P

Just go through this thread.

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/game-devs-once-again-bashing-the-xbox-series-s-t-t-33591849/

Are multiplatform devs who already scale down their games from PC to console really going to want to put in the extra resources to scale down again between consoles? I would think not, based on the third party track record with multiplat games and Nintendo consoles as well as the new information about Gotham Knights.

Xbox and PC are so similar in architecture that I don't see what is the concern of "extra" resources. When developing for Xbox, Series S is not optional. So, it is not a question on whether they want to, they have to if they want their game on Series X.

I'm not the best techy but as others here who have said, devs scale down from the most beastly of PC's to the bare minimum requirements PC's all the time and those being below the specs of XSS. I dunno, I'll leave it to others who know way more than I do these days about such things to argue about. It just makes sense to me. ;)

I did read the part where it says MS is requiring devs to develop for the S if they want to develop for the X.

Give it a couple years, devs will start saying "no thanks" to MS and develop only for PS5 and PC, MS will start losing out on big third party games and drop that rule, games will be developed solely for the X and the S will be discontinued off of store shelves. They will be forced to shift with the market if they want to stay competitive and relevant.

Tell me if am wrong but am sure the minimal PC specs are lower than the Series S.

I don't own a gaming PC so I cannot answer that for you

Even if it is, as the gen goes on and devs start using the full potential of the PS5 and XSX, obviously it would be a bit better than even the lowest of PC specs from ten years ago

There in lies the problem. I would rather have the PS5 as the LCD. A 4 TFlops console shouldn't even be on the radar for current gen development. It is like a cross-gen that never ends since you always have to cater to that shit hardware. It's a shitty mandate that MS imposed just so they could release a shit console at a low price that doesn't belong in this generation.

Actually that won't happen, no matter what this "artist" says. There have been numerous developers PRAISING the Xbox Series S for development.

Not sure why one would hang their hat on an "artists" words.

Oh c'mon, look at games from 2006 on the 360 and PS3, then look at games from 2013 on them. Look at PS4 and XBO titles in 2013, then look at ones released in 2020. Games get better performance wise and graphics wise over time on hardware. You really believe the S is gonna be able to keep up once we hit the years 2025-2026?

The memory bandwidth and capacity is the biggest hurdle with the Series S. If the only difference was the GPU, there would be virtually no issues down-scaling games to run on the Series S hardware. But for some unknown reason, Xbox decided on 8GB of RAM at 224GB/s with an additional 2GB at 56GB/s. There were low-end GPUs launched over 6 years ago with that kind of bandwidth. And they want to roll with that for the next 4-6 years?!?! I'm not sure who thought that was a good idea...

Min is a 1660TI or an RX590, both of which I'd consider decently ahead of the Series S.

I am not a developer. I am going by what the console creator has said and what developers have said. And we can't use 4TF as a baseline. If we did, we would have to use 9 as a baseline for the PS5, which would then hold the entire gen back from the 12.155 TF Xbox Series X if the low end PCs and Series S didn't exist. Do you think developers would stop making game for the PS5?

Yes! In two years, developers would abandon Xbox because they are forced to develop for Series S. 🙄 I know you really want the Series S to be discontinued but, it is not going to happen.

It is not for you do decide what belongs and what doesn't belong a generation. The Switch dominates sales and is using 360/PS3 tech. Gamers decides what stays and what goes. Development also doesn't work in the silly manner you think. Developers has never exclusively developed for higher end platforms and that is not going to change. The simple reality, is that the Series S version is going to be the weakest just like a weakly spec computer. A concept that I falsely assumed you understood but, I was wrong. 😏

Not if PS5 is still selling well. I remember reading that the S was significantly behind in sales compared to PS5 and XSX. So that answers that question in itself.

Same reason why the Switch is still here in 2022, it sells well despite having weak hardware. Call me when the Series S is outselling the X and PS5.

Definitely not debunked.

Can you provide the data showing the Series S is doing poorly in comparison to the Series X and PS5? Legit sources is greatly preferred and not rumors.

Oh the horror!

Also, already a thread on this.

"Extra"? Do you know how to program? Once you design software for scalability, it's not a big issue.

@Pedro: It would appear there is already users in this thread who are far more educated on the topic and proving you wrong. I'll let them do their thing.

EDIT: Didn't see the sales comment til now. I've read articles mainly quoting retailers. It's hard to really say considering MS doesn't like to release official hardware numbers as much anymore. No doubt we know why the lack of transparency is happening but I can tell you I was at my local Best Buy the other day and they had a stack of S consoles but no X or PS5 consoles. Only one store sure, but wonder if it paints at all into the bigger picture of next gen hardware sales.

Provide the information showing the Series S performing poorly. Don't deflect.😎

I didn't see your other comment until after I had already left mine

@mysticaldonut: So, your claim is baseless. Thanks for confirming. Good luck with your dreams of the Series S being discontinued.👍🏼

Here is your phone call.

Series S is outselling Xbox Series X.

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/xbox-series-s-is-estimated-to-have-outsold-series-x-in-several-key-markets/

https://www.gamebyte.com/the-xbox-series-s-is-outselling-the-series-x/

also from there:

As reported by GamesIndustry.biz, it is claimed that the Xbox Series S and Series X are pretty much on par at 50/50 in terms of install base in a majority of key global territories.

https://gamerant.com/xbox-series-s-outsells-ps5-xbox-series-x/

Xbox Series S Reportedly Outsells PS5 and Xbox Series X On Black Friday

@kvallyx: LMAO! All of those sales links are from the same week in November 2021, when Series X availability was scarce, and Series S consoles were abundantly available...

Also, the hardware constraints were so bad that month, the Switch nearly outsold the PS5 and Xbox Series consoles combined. 1.13 million Switch consoles vs just over 1.13 million PS5 and Xbox Series X and S. So even if the Series S outsold the X and PS5 that month, the number of consoles we're talking about are insignificant...

@goldenelementxl: Is the data showing to the contrary?

Yup, link us to where it has changed. Note the article also mentioned it was already a 50/50 split before that Black Friday. Do you have a link showing where the Xbox Series X has surpassed the Xbox Series S? ROFLMAO

Which is in line with exactly what Phil said would happen:

Phil Spencer thinks Xbox Series S will end up outselling Xbox Series X

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/phil-spencer-thinks-xbox-series-s-will-end-up-outselling-xbox-series-x/

Wait wait wait wait wait. I remember these stories now. LMAO!

This "data" came from Adobe Digital Economy Index, who analyzed visits to retail sites and surveyed retailers. They "predicted" that the Series S outsold the competition and 'won" black Friday. Two weeks later, when the NPD data came out, we learned the Switch demolished the competition for the month, and likely sold more console the week of black Friday, than either company sold the ENTIRE MONTH. We NEVER got an official breakdown of Series X vs Series S. Just that Switch won the month and black Friday, and that the Xbox Series consoles beat the PS5 in November.

I knew I was getting a feeling of deja vu... Xbox Twitter had a tough time after that one. Read the stories and check your sources folks. LOL! WCCF Tech was kind enough to inform us on where these "figures" were coming from.

So you have no source to the contrary. Got it.

Cool. Now do you have data showing the contrary?

I don't need one, when your "source" is a group that monitors website traffic... Why haven't they been sourced since then? Publications quickly realized their goof when the NPD results came out a couple weeks later

It's better than your source stating the opposite.......

The November NPD. ADEI said the Series S outsold the Nintendo Switch. The Nintendo Switch overwhelmingly beat the competition on Black Friday, and the month of November. If the ADEI, and their website traffic method failed that badly for Black Friday, what makes you think they were right about ANYTHING?

This is very weird for you. The conversation is about the Series S outselling the Xbox Series X and here you are talking about the Switch...OK. Let us keep it super simple. Do you believe the Series X is outselling and have outsold the Series S?

PS: Yes or No.

The source for your information said the Series S outsold the Switch... Try to keep up.


I 100% believe, that right now, and for many, months, the Series X has been outselling the Series S. Back closer to launch, when Xbox couldn't get Series S consoles out the door, the Series S was outselling the Series X.

The context of the conversation is about the Series S sales to the Series X, you try to keep up.

Since you believe that the Series X has been outselling the Series S, do you have any evidence or are you coming to conclusions without facts?😎

This all stems from:

"I remember reading that the S was significantly behind in sales compared to PS5 and XSX. So that answers that question in itself."

I have never heard that, and I can't find that. But what I have heard (and linked) is:

• Xbox Series S and Xbox Series X are at a 50/50 market share
• Xbox Series S outsold the Xbox Series X last year in November
• Phil Spencer said he fully expects the Series S to outsell the Series X this generation

New generations usually mean leaving the old kit behind. Switch is just shit and does its own thing. Most of the last gen games didn't even get ported to it because it is so shit. I would prefer that developers forget about 4K altogether and target 1080p/60fps on consoles. Fuk wasting time scaling to XSS and leave it as a 720p potato mode we don't give a fuk console. Use PS5 as the LCD and crank up the fidelity. Leave the higher resolutions and frame rates to much more capable PC hardware and the Pro consoles when they come out.

It doesn't look like those are recent sales figures, more so ones from the holiday seasons when the consoles first came out. How are things nowadays that shortages aren't as terrible? I know people were buying the S simply because they couldn't find an X or PS5 and wanted a next gen system.

EDIT: I see others already pointed this out. Sigh. I need to learn to refresh my webpage.

The context revolves around us taking the information provided by the ADEI at face value. I've shown you that we cannot do that. They make VGChartz look incredibly accurate by comparison

As for evidence, walk into ANY retailer. Go to any website that sells consoles. One is, and has been available for a year+, while the other can STILL be hard to find. That tells you which one consumers are flocking to. It may be a crude method to draw a conclusion, but its FAR more reliable than whatever the ADEI is doing...

You ain't lyin. The Series S can be added to your cart right now at Best Buy:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/microsoft-xbox-series-s-512-gb-all-digital-console-disc-free-gaming-white/6430277.p?skuId=6430277

But the Series X..?

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/microsoft-xbox-series-x-1tb-console-black/6428324.p?skuId=6428324

Show us something to the contrary. We are going by your claim that the XSX has SIGNIFICANTLY outsold the XSS.

People are buying the S because it's what they want. They get to play all next gen games on it for $299 and then play Game Pass games on it for 3 years for $1. I mean, if it wasn't a concern, Sony wouldn't have committed to supporting the PS4 for 4 more years. Most developers are still supporting gen 8. Which makes sense. Look at how big the gen 8 install base is. 170 million vs. 40 million (PS vs Xbox).

PS4 Will Get Up To 4 Years Of Support From Sony After PS5 Launch

https://screenrant.com/sony-continuing-ps4-support-after-ps5-launch/

Then look at low range supported PCs with old hard drives.

Do you have ANY concrete data to back any of that up, other than that bogus garbage you linked earlier?

The Series S and Series X were presumably at 50/50 marketshare when you couldn't find a Series X, and the Series S was everywhere. And we have ZERO evidence that the Series S outsold the Series X at any point in the US. Japan is literally the only place we get an accurate breakdown, and they actually reflect your claims in that region. Here are this past weeks Series S and X numbers from Japan, followed by lifetime numbers.

This is how you backup claims and properly source credible information...

Source

1. Xbox Series S – 406 (200,161)
2. Xbox Series X – 391 (164,127)
   
   
   

@kvallyx: It's hard to give any "solid evidence" simply because MS isn't transparent with their hardware sales figures anymore. I am just going off word of mouth from friends, internet forums, social media, and seeing what's available at Best Buy, GameStop, Target, Walmart etc. whenever I'm there and walk by the electronics sections.

Fair enough. It has just come across as like there was some announcement or something.

Excellent. Now post a source to the contrary of what has been announced at the sources I supplied. We would like to see where it has been said that the Xbox Series X has SIGNIFICANTLY outsold the Series S.

A quote from Phil stating that he expects the Series S to outsell the Series X this generation? Do you not believe what he said'?