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Jag85

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#1  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19617 Posts

Why are you still talking @ me?

O...K... Then no @ this time.

There's a declining interest among PS players with JP developed games.

Terrible argument. If that were the case, then a similar pattern would've been observed on other platforms. Yet interest in JP games has only increased on PC and Switch. PS5 is an exception to the rule. Not to mention user bases are not static, but dynamic. Users don't always stay loyal to a single platform, but switch between platforms all the time. It's ridiculous to assume user bases are always static. Either way, there's a clear correlation between JP game sales declining on PS5 and increasing on PC, which you've repeatedly failed to explain away. The most plausible explanation is that fans of JP games have simply migrated to another platform. It's a simple logical deduction, not rocket science.

The slight dip in console sales can also easily be explained away with lack of first party offerings PS has provided to consumers.

This has nothing to do with anything I said... I was talking about software sales of JP games, not console hardware sales.

end this farce now.

Sure thing. This is going nowhere. Good bye.

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#2  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19617 Posts

@fedor: We already have the data. What matters is how we interpret the data. What the data shows is a correlation between 3rd party JP game sales declining on PS5 and increasing on PC at the same time. I've provided a plausible explanation for this correlation: users moving to a different platform. You vehemently disagree with this explanation, yet you've failed to provide an adequate alternative explanation for this correlation.

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#3  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19617 Posts

@fedor:

PC gamers are simply buying games that are available to them. JP studios and pubs realized there was money to be made and started porting.

Then what's your explanation for 3rd party JP game sales declining on PS5 at the same time?

It's also called a guess.

It's an estimate from a sales tracker.

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#4  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19617 Posts

This statement doesn't prove what you're trying to claim.

I said it's an interpretation of the data: JP game sales are declining on PS5 yet increasing on PC. You have not provided an alternative interpretation to explain this phenomenon.

I assumed you didn't have any actual numbers

That's called an estimate.

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#5  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19617 Posts

@fedor: I said JP games are selling more on PC than on PS5. You're combining PS4 and PS5 sales. JP games sold very well on PS4, yet aren't selling that well on PS5. This would suggest that a significant number of former PS4 gamers are opting to buy JP games on PC rather than PS5.

As for Nier Automata:

  • Total sales - 8 million
  • Steam estimate - 4 million
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#6  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19617 Posts
@fedor said:
@Jag85 said:

The best-selling game this year so far is a 3rd party JP game: Palworld. All of those sales came from PC.

Back in 2022, the year's best-selling game was also a 3rd party JP game: Elden Ring. The lion's share of its sales also came from PC.

And then there's Capcom games, which have been selling record numbers lately. And once again, a large share of Capcom's sales come from PC.

Capcom Is Making More Money Than Ever Before

What these examples demonstrate, along with the Persona 5 and Nier examples I gave above, is that PC has now taken a big chunk of the market share from PlayStation when it comes to 3rd party JP games.

All this demonstrates is JP games are popular on PC, provide data showing gamers leaving the PS platform because of 3rd party JP games, because all you're showing is JP devs realizing there was a huge untapped market on PC. Atlus literally came out asking PC players if they want Persona on PC.

The data shows that 3rd party JP games are selling more on PC than on PS5. How else would you interpret this data? silentchief's interpretation of the data makes logical sense: a significant number of JP game fans jumped ship from PlayStation to PC. If you have an alternative interpretation of the data, then feel free to present it.

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#7  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19617 Posts
@mrbojangles25 said:
@nirgal said:

Well samurais were simply the warrior class that served the lords in Japan up until the meiji period. Samurai literally meaning "those who serve"

Yasuke is in historical records taking parts in several battles in defense of no other than Oda nobunaga and is described as a very strong fighter. So calling him, a servent that knows how to bear arms, a samurai, is very appropriate.

But having said so, I would love to see more stories with realistic african historical settings, including warriors or other characters

iirc Samurai was actually a social caste, in addition to a title. While you could also be elevated to samurai status, most were hereditary.

If you were a samurai, you were above the peasants, servants, etc.

It also meant you had certain duties to, and compensated by, whatever lord you served.

A non-Japanese samurai would have been a big deal because it basically means you were raised above native Japanese to a certain legal status, paid for your services, and also legally superior to most Japanese citizens.

It would not have been taken lightly and while this person might have been a samurai in all but name, I very much doubt they would have made him a literal samurai.

I hope they address this in the game, it would be an interesting way to explore tokenism, i.e. Japanese samurai saying the African samurai is only there because he is a pet or an oddity or whatever. Not that I want a game full of social commentary like that, but it'd be interesting.

It's worth noting that Yasuke had a large physical build for his time, reported to be about 6ft tall. To put that into perspective, the average male height was around 5'5 in the Middle Ages. Yasuke's 6ft height was exceptionally tall for that time.

If you look at it from Nobunaga's perspective, it would be a waste of Yasuke's physical build to just keep him as a household slave. Nobunaga was a military genius who would've recognized Yasuke as a physical asset in battle. It would've made logical sense for him to train Yasuke to be a samurai and enlist him into his army.

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#8 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19617 Posts
@fedor said:
@silentchief said:
@fedor said:
@Jag85 said:

Examples that come to mind:

Persona 5 Royal sold an estimated 2M on Steam, almost as much as what it sold on PS4 (2.3M) and far more than PS5 (300K).

Nier Automata sold an estimated 4M on Steam, about half of its total 8M sales across all platforms.

I already know JP developed games were popular on PC, that's all your sales numbers prove. Show me the data that says PS gamers leaving the platform for PC because of 3rd party JP games. That's what he claimed.

I'm saying it's a combination of things. Japanese games and first party support moving to PC along with PC's popularity with the streamer/influencer crowd. Look at fighting games for an example. They were dominated by the Playstation platform and many are moving to PC.

The concrete data we do have is Playstation 5 is now lagging behind the PS4 and will miss sell targets by 4 million. It will only get worse.

3rd party JP games and fighting games are minuscule in comparison to BR games popularity exploding as well as WRPG's, MOBA (LoL/DOTA), and indie titles that originated and blew up on PC (Among Us, Minecraft, Terraria etc...). Even Sony first party barely moves the needle in comparison. The streamers/influencers is easily the best example you gave. There's really nothing Sony can do about it, they can't money hat everything as much as they'd like to. Sony could announce no more 1st party titles on PC today and it would have minimal effect on the PC platform. PS5 is lagging behind because of their own hubris.

The best-selling game this year so far is a 3rd party JP game: Palworld. All of those sales came from PC.

Back in 2022, the year's best-selling game was also a 3rd party JP game: Elden Ring. The lion's share of its sales also came from PC.

And then there's Capcom games, which have been selling record numbers lately. And once again, a large share of Capcom's sales come from PC.

Capcom Is Making More Money Than Ever Before

What these examples demonstrate, along with the Persona 5 and Nier examples I gave above, is that PC has now taken a big chunk of the market share from PlayStation when it comes to 3rd party JP games.

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#9 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19617 Posts
@fedor said:
@silentchief said:
@fedor said:
@silentchief said:

So if you know it's coming sooner or later you will wait for the PC version....?

Yea that kinda proves my point.

No it doesn't. He's made it clear for years on this very site that PC is his preferred platform, long before Sony started publishing 1st party games on PC. Furthermore, Rebirth isn't a Sony 1st party title. You'd have a point if he only recently this gen became a PC guy and now waits to buy Sony 1st party games on PC, but that isn't the case.

Look at my original point.

He can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I believe he is a fan of Japanese games. There was a time when Japanese support on PC was pretty lackluster. That has changed over the past decade so many Playstation fans who were a fan of 3rd party Japanese titles have switched to PC because the platform has full support. I believe the remaining fans of Sony's first party content will do the same.

What data do you have to show this?

Examples that come to mind:

Persona 5 Royal sold an estimated 2M on Steam, almost as much as what it sold on PS4 (2.3M) and far more than PS5 (300K).

Nier Automata sold an estimated 4M on Steam, about half of its total 8M sales across all platforms.

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#10 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19617 Posts
@texasgoldrush said:
@Jag85 said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

I do enjoy how this might offend some Japanese though, those people have a history of not being very welcoming of dark-skinned folks. Just to stir things up. I don't think anyone should really read into this too much lol.

Let's not pretend that Western countries don't have an infinitely worse history of racism against dark-skin people...

But I can see your point. I haven't seen Japan's reactions yet, but they would have every right to be offended. However, if they weren't also offended by white samurai protagonists in the likes of Nioh, Shogun, or Last Samurai, then that would be hypocritical.

There is anime about him

Afro Samurai isn't about Yasuke, but it does appear to be inspired by him. And Japanese audiences definitely had no issue with it back in the days. But Afro Samurai was made in Japan, whereas Assassin's Creed is made in the West, so they might react differently.