Game of Thrones Season 8 Final discussion thread! (Spoilers discussion included)

I one hundred percent agree. For all the massive armies and dragons and the Red God's relative ineffectiveness, the approach of the MFG was a direct and pointed counterbalance on making short work of the Night King. NK wants to bring death to everyone, the followers of the MFG bring death as a gift to end suffering, and those who cause it. A philosophical deterrent to the chaos that would bring the world to an end. It's poetic that all it took was one. Stealth FTW!

Ah OK I see. Ya that's a fair point all around.

I do wish for more backstory on the Night King and the White Walkers, other than how they were made.

After watching it a second time I found it to be better. The beginning sequences and the 'snuffing' out of the Dothraki charge (military tactics aside) really set the tone, 'We're fucked'. I still found sequences of our main characters surrounded by the undead to be out of place since it doesn't fit. I'd also like to get some more exposition on what Bran was doing the entire time.

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but I feel like there is more to the Long Night and the Night's King than we know so far. I have a feeling that the last two episodes will have some sort of twist. I would be very surprised if the series just ends with the heroes taking down Cersei.

So regarding this: "Game of Thrones" Cinematographer Defends Lighting Choices for Battle of Winterfell Episode.

Reading people comments, I was reminded that people enjoy this show in a myriad of ways, including "watch parties" in which some have the lights on?

No way someone with some lighting/reflection or a sub-par setting could have really seen what was happening in this episode. I watch TV series how I watch movies, lights off, everything off except the ones coming out of my router which can't be avoided.

But if I had a little bit of trouble (the quality of my "feed" may have had something to do about it) watching this episode on my 50'' Panasonic 1080p Plasma (known for their crisp blacks) 10 feet away from it (that's right, I'm blind) I can't imagine people watching this on their iPads or phones or whatever.

Which is funny because I distinctly remember in one specific shot thinking "why is this scene so bright? Where is this light coming from? These are "medieval-like" times so where would this white light surrounding the castle come from (and no, I don't believe torches throughout the castle could account for them, at least not from what it was shown in the episode and for the seemingly LED tone quality of it)?

Which shows the balance a cinematographer has to mindful between realistic and "people actually need to see what it is happening".

@mandzilla:

That's how I feel, once the show ran out of Martin's material, they were too lazy to write anything with depth, so they ceased creating any new characters and sprinted to the end.

The seasons with George Martin's books behind it had great depth and unexpected/surprising deaths for those who hadn't read the books. Last 2 seasons have been rushed and predictable, they seem to be just doing fan service. I was very dissatisfied with the deaths, I figured half of the "fireside chat" group from the previous episode would be dead, but none died, not even Brienne dying as a hero knight.

So, probably Jon on the throne, married Sansa and Tyrion ruling the north, something like that. Jaime killing Cersei, Hound killing Mountain, blah blah blah. Might not happen that way but sure seems that way. No depth to the show anymore.

I've been really enjoying Season 8 so far. Episodes 1 and 2 were great for building up tension between characters, building existing character relationships and also forming new ones.

Episode 3 was a strong episode, and I really enjoyed it. The whole way through I was on the edge of my seat, and couldn't contain my nerves. The start of the episode was really great, I love how they managed to create fear into me as a watcher, it was really convincing that this was literally a battle against death itself. Some of the shots were beautiful, the dragon CGI was amazing, and the actors really went all-out to create what is a truly convincing performance of a battle against an enemy that is almost undefeatable.

However, there are a few plot points I think need to be addressed.

I thought that the Dothraki charging with their flaming swords into the darkness as imagery was incredible. And the silence afterwards was really eerie. The fact that only a few ran back, including Ser Jorah, felt real and convincing to me. However, I did not like that they just threw Ghost in running alongside Ser Jorah, to not be seen or heard of for the rest of the episode. This is a minor gripe, but it really ruined the enjoyment of that part of the episode for me. I was left a little disappointed, as Ghost's role in Season 8 was rumoured to be important, yet all he's done so far is stand next to Jon whilst he has a conversation with Edd and Sam in Episode 2, and run alongside Ser Jorah. I believe he's still alive, I think you can see him in the preview teaser for episode 4, but it wasn't made clear in the show and why would he not be seen anywhere in the battle afterwards?

The dragon stuff was all A+, it was something that I've never seen before and some of the visuals, such as them flying up over the clouds, were really something else. However, what was the point of Daenerys and Jon both sitting together on what appears to be a hill, overlooking the slaughter of her army? I am glad she decided to break with the plan, because it fits with her character: I find it hard to believe that Dany would ever have just simply stood there and waited for the Night King, watching her people die who she has come so far with, just for the sake of saving some kid she doesn't really know, and who isn't really important to her. I'm not purporting to be the script writer or director here, but the dragons are crucial to winning the war. They breathe fire, one of 2 or 3 methods needed to kill Wights. Surely Dany could've provided the much needed air support by killing Wights right at the beginning, whilst Jon waits for the Night King in what is surely a more meaningful role for him.

Also I think we need to talk about character deaths here. I have a love-hate relationship with how few characters died in this episode. I love it because they are literally all of my favourite characters, and I did not want any one of them to die in such a horrible way. However, this is Game of Thrones. There were a few instances where it would've been very easy to kill Sam, or even Brienne, who has satisfied her character arc and, in terms of plot, I don't really see any furtherance to the plot or her character that could be provided by having her around. Brienne is one of my favourite characters, but I still thought it a questionable decision on their part to keep her alive. The deaths that did happen, however, were satisfying to all of the characters and were, mostly, really brave. Heroic deaths for Jorah, Edd, Theon, Beric and Lyanna was a really nice touch, and a nice way to say goodbye to all of these characters.

I was disappointed that a main character didn't at least die in the crypts, where it would've been most appropriate. However, I really liked the Tyrion and Sansa stuff, and Missandei putting them both in their place was a nice touch.

I thought, like most people, that Bran was totally pointless in this episode. He understood the importance of himself to the Night King, and yet did nothing. What was the purpose of Bran, what has been the purpose of Bran, if not to help in some way to defeat the Night King, other than to provide bait? I don't know what I expected from Bran, as I'm not sure of the extent of his powers, but I didn't expect him to just sit in his wheelchair and warg into some ravens, and that be the end of it. Perhaps we will get more clarity in the next episode.

Finally, the main gripe I have. Arya killing the Night King was fantastic. I didn't expect it and fully expected everyone to die. I thought the way it was done was really good, and I like that it was her as we've kinda been waiting for a moment like this for Arya for some time. I know her being a general badass and killing the Frey's etc was really cool, but she's always been fiercely loyal to her family, and it's nice to see that here.

What I have an issue with is the point of this entire battle, the point of the war council in particular. It seems to be implied that Bran, Melisandre, Beric all knew that Arya needed to kill the Night King. Perhaps that's me reading too much into things, but that's how it appears to me. Bran gave her the dagger in the same place, Melisandre told her she would shut brown, green and blue eyes forever, etc. Obviously Melisandre wasn't at the war council, but Bran was. Surely if Bran knew that it was Arya who would kill the Night King, would it not be better to have NO army out there, and simply to have the dragons lighting the army of the dead on fire, whilst Arya hangs out with Bran and Theon (if he so wishes) waiting for the Night King? Why didn't he say something?

I'm trying to avoid general nitpicking about the silliness of the battle and stuff like that, as I actually thought bits of it were really cool and, from a visual perspective, far more impressive than having it all organised and orderly. I thought Jon having a much less heroic role than he has in the past was good; although it doesn't serve his character all too well, they played it convincingly when he was trying, but unable, to get to Bran. I think we all understand Jon to be a hero, and this episode was about the general heroes, such as Brienne, Jaime, Jon etc, being subverted to make way for more unexpected heroes, such as Arya, Theon or even Dany, although it could be argued that she has always been considered a hero.

Daenerys is not my favourite character, but I like her a lot and one of my biggest gripes from Episode 1 and 2 is the writers trying to hint that she's going to turn into a Mad Queen. Dany has lost one of her dragons, and bought her whole army for the slaughter, in a battle that does not concern her. She didn't need Jon or the North's help to defeat Cersei and her army, as she had three dragons and a far larger army. Instead she chose to help, because that is who she is: kind and good. After this episode, any writing trying to make Dany out to be 'mad' is something I'm not gonna buy. She stopped more people from being slaughtered unnecessarily by hopping on Drogon and burning some Wights. When Jon was facing an uphill battle with Viserion and the Night King, it was Dany who came to his aid and threw the Night King off Viserion. It was Dany who tried to kill the Night King. It was Dany who, when Jon was faced with the impossible task of killing all the Wights who the Night King had just resurrected, saved his ass once again, and it was Dany who picked up a sword and started helping Jorah fight. I'm honestly glad that this episode had so much heroic Dany stuff, because I was getting concerned that the writers were genuinely going to make her a Mad Queen, which would totally fly in the face of her character and everything she has done.

@chefvortivxsk: Pretty much sums up my thoughts. Great post! To address your point about Bran, I don't think he knew that Arya would kill the night king. Remember when Jaime apologized to Bran and Bran said "how do you know there is an after?" (Implying they might all die in the fight).

He might see certain possibilities or a blurry/imperfect rendition of the future to work with. I don't know for sure, this is just speculation. Otherwise he could easily just tell everyone how to beat Cersei and the walkers.

@XVision84: yeah I guess that's true! perhaps I've read too many discussions on it. clearly the show writers need to do more to help us understand exactly what Bran can actually do! Leaving it up for us to speculate and guess is, in my opinion at least, bad writing on their part. there's been plenty of opportunity for bran to explain himself and exactly what he's capable of doing, particularly in the war council where he could've told them "I can see ..." probably would've really helped them out!

I actually like the approach they're taking with bran. He seems so detached from what's going on around him that it can look like he doesn't care at all. He's also mentioned that he isn't really Bran anymore, it's mysterious in a way I like. They seem to be taking this approach with most mystical aspects of the show. We don't know about how the walkers really work or "think" nor do we know much about the lord of light, so it makes sense they'd do the same with Bran. I guess they wanted to replicate the state of ignorance we often find ourselves in with real life. Many fantasy stories end up answering every part of their lore, when in reality we don't really know the inner workings of most things in our world.

Bran is a bit shit. He sat there in silence for ages waiting for Arya to show up, I was surprised he didn't employ a little distracting small talk, e.g. 'ooooh its a bit cold out here today isn't it, fancy a cup of tea and lemon slice mr king?' rather than sit there waiting for sword to get stuck through his eyeball.

Apart from that, a thoroughly enjoyable darkened blur of an episode akin to a medieval 28 days later.

how so?

Agree. This season feels like a rush job with little time to develop it seems. It's as if the writers trying to throw everything in it just to say were done and gone.

there's three episodes left from an eight season saga lol. the time for development has long since passed surely? time to wrap shit up

@Macutchi: my thoughts exactly. there's no point writing scripts for a 6 episode finale season which is heavy on the political intrigue. we already know what the characters want, where they need to be and what they need to do. we just need to watch them do it. some of the writing could be better in terms of making it more clear for the audience to understand wtf is going on, but in terms of "rushing", I don't see what they're rushing exactly. knighting Brienne has been a long time coming, we've been waiting for Dany to sail and conquer Westeros for 7 fucking seasons now, character reunions have felt genuinely meaningful and they've been really well written, and advancing the plot for the Night King to attack winterfell is not rushing. we have 3 more episodes left, can't really waste it on watching 55 minute long episodes about Jon's war council and how best effectively to defeat the Night King. get on with the war, and focus on what really matters: who is gonna sit on that damn throne!

Last episdoe was interesting, but in the end i give it a thumbs down. Seems like they made a bunch of illogical decisions at the end, ignoring the past several years of shows. I like Arya, but seriously, it made no sense to have her as the one. Why was Jon Snow resurrected and why was he so central to the white walker story line, but yet have almost nothing to do with its resolution. Makes no sense.

@sonicare: Jon Snow may have been resurrected in order to bring Dany to the fight. without Dany and her huge army and dragons it would've been impossible for Arya to kill NK as everyone would've been dead in 5 seconds. so Jon played a crucial role in banding the north together and getting some support from elsewhere as well. just cos he wasn't the one to kill NK doesn't mean that he hasn't been important

@poptart: Right up until the NK went to draw his weapon I was certain that either Bran was controlling him, or else knew exactly what was about to happen and knew he was in no danger because of a prophecy or something. Of course, even if Bran were about to be killed I don't think it would matter too much to him, because he is some other entity now.

I think for the show to make some sort of sense, there's got to be some sort of point to Bran. He's got to play some larger role somehow.

By that same logic, he was the cause of the wall falling in the first place. Had he not brought Dany and her dragons, the night king couldnt have brought down the wall.

@sonicare: I mean technically without Bran getting touched the NK wouldn't have been able to breach the wall anyway would he?

I dont know. The show and the book are quite different.

@sonicare: either way yes Jon's stupid plan to bring a Wight back pretty much gave the NK a dragon, but when Dany saw the army of the dead she was willing to help him fight them. without her help the north would've been lost, and so without Jon going and trying to get her help, Arya wouldn't have been able to kill the NK and they all would have died!

So I hate to say it, but I can't help but feel kind of disappointed with this show now.

After episode 3 I was still optimistic - 3 episodes left, still time to cover some ground with the story. Episode 4 had its moments, but honestly felt like a letdown. I am given the impression that the remaining two episodes of this series will focus squarely on the Cersei plot, and everything else has been given as much of a send-off as it's going to get.

So I will say that the first half or two thirds of this episode were alright I guess, from a story standpoint. The remainder was just more of the same "Why are they making so many horrible decisions?" moments that we've come to expect in this season and the last. Back when I watched the episode where Gendry ran to the Wall and got word to Danaerys and she flew in on her dragon to save everyone and suddenly the physical distance that exists in the world became moot... I never thought that could be topped. But there have been so many outright dumb moments now that it kind of ruins these last couple of episodes for me.

All of this is building up to what is, hopefully, at least a good last battle and some sense of resolution within this show. But honestly... Like why the hell did Missandei even go along? Has she ever done ANY fighting??? Lol.

Unless Rhagael somehow survives that attack and isn't dead, and will return later in this fight, then that whole sea attack was so incredibly pointless.

Arya must have some ridiculously good pussy for that dude to want to marry her after 1 **** and just hanging out with her for 1 day after like 6 years.

@zaryia: Well to be fair she is a pretty, young girl who's never been with anyone else and who saved the world from complete devastation.

@chefvortivxsk: and how would the night king get across the wall without that dragon? What exactly was his plan? March to the wall...and What? Lol

First half of.the epi was good, second half was trash.

Ghost now officially completely wasted and another dragon down after not moving in the air after being shot.

Varys totally gonna be ratted on by tyrion

Oh, and their reasons for the marriage not working was just dumb

@sonicare: the wall was magic in show too

Another great episode, I personally think they're doing a great job wrapping things up. Can't wait to see the rest :).

Also, based and tyrion knowing cersci is preggo, euron should have figured out it isnt his kid

That's more like it. 2 minor things that bothered me and then a bigger one.

• Doing the funeral fires at the beginning with CGI, why? Plant however many trees you may have to, but this is the kind of detail I expect a series of this magnitude to not quibble over.
• 7 years of not giving a **** over sex and nudity and on the last season they bend the knee. I got why they didn't showed Arya, she's still a teenager in the series right (even if she's 22 in real life)? So one can understand that, but nothing for Jamie and Brienne? Just weak.

And the bigger one is the plot armor stuff, so the whole ship fleet gets destroyed but all the principals survive? Get the **** out with that.

With that said, the palace intrigue is back and that conversation between Tyrion and Lord Varys was quite good.

I dunno Gendry just being a fool wanting to marry her after 1 bang lmao and hanging out with her for a day or two.

I guess saving the entire world thing also sweetens the deal, but still lol.

I think the first half of the episode was excellent, all of the stuff in winterfell and genuine challenges daenerys has to see (that possibly Jon inspires far more loyalty than she does?) was really well written. Brienne and Jaime FINALLY.

Bronn coming back was great, and classic Bronn to try and negotiate a better deal from a higher standpoint. Really good.

Rhaegal dying surprised me, didn't expect it and I didn't want him to die but I thought it was good.

Missandei dying was also good, I liked that she said "dracarys" and thought that was really cool.

however there are some bad points about the episode. I don't like, and haven't liked since season 7, that they're trying to make Daenerys out to be a mad queen. I don't buy it and I don't think it's fitting for her character who cares so much for people and tries to help and inspire them. I thought she had a valid point when she told Sansa that she bought herself and her armies to the slaughter pretty much, to help them win against the dead. Arya defending her in the Godswood was good. Someone had to!

The Ghost stuff was AWFUL. Why would Jon send him up North? Ghost is domesticated, he's lived in Winterfell since he was a puppy and been with Jon almost constantly. He sat by his side when Jon had died, and then when he was bought back to life. Why would he go up beyond the wall on his own without Jon? Seems a ridiculous way for the writers to stop trying to write him in in my opinion.

Other than those 2 points, the episode was actually really strong and, if they are continuing with the Mad Queen Dany plotline, her feeling left out in the hall at winterfell, and her trying to persuade Jon to not tell anyone else about his true identity, is good writing and perfectly fitting for the narrative they are choosing for Dany. Aside from my thoughts on that narrative, it makes sense.

Overall the episode creates a lot of tension, in preparation for the next battle which I'm sure will be excellent

I agree. Episode 4 sealed it for me. Current season just seems incredibly rushed and poorly planned, and the writing has progressively worsened to the point where it detracts from the prior seasons. They essentially retconned Arya into being Azor Ahai (Melisandre's comment on eyes got switched around retroactively). Makes no sense. I like Arya as a character but her destiny seems to have been built more with killing the living (e.g. Cersei). She had no connections, whatsoever, to the night king or the army of the dead. Literally, that was the first time she faced them and she ends up being the savior. Even the writers/producers mentioned that they picked her on a whim. May as well have had Podrick slay the night king given the lack of meaning behind it.

For the first seven seasons, Jon Snow's story arc was mostly about the white walkers, the wall, the north, and this predestined conflict with the "cold one". Then, in the climactic battle, he essentially does nothing. Again, I would have been fine with Arya killing the night king - had her story had at least some involvement in that branch.

And Bran? Wtf. What was his whole journey to be the 3 eyed raven. To stop the night king and help the living - and he does nothing during that entire sequence. He served no purpose.

Cersei has gone from a complicated, complex character to one who is just pure evil and irredeemable.

Euron Greyjoy is a one dimensional douche of a character, yet he seems to be more powerful than the night king. With a fleet of stealth ships that can instantly decloak and take out a dragon with rapid and precision fire that would make most modern navies jealous. Stupid plot device to cripple Dany's power further.

And then there is Dany. Her sudden descent into becoming a mad and crazed despot is disappointing. The first several seasons were about her learning to rule and building her power. She went from being a thoughtful and charismatic leader to this incompetent assclown. I would have been find with a more subtle descent into madness, but they just seem to flip a switch.

daenerys' lot are so tactically naive it's embarrassing. tyrion proving to be a bit of a disappointment in that regard

Just got done watching Episode 4 of season 8.

I really enjoyed this episode. I got my answer as far as how many troops are left. 50% of unsullied left, 50% of Northmen, no mention of Dothraki so I take it they got wiped out. It's going to be a big battle next week but I don't think the numbers are in Jons/Danys favor anymore? Varys made an odd comment about the new prince of Dorne will back them up, not sure if that was a throwaway line. I do think Daario will come back into the picture and there will obviously be a fight between Yara and Euron. And Gendry... make some damn dragon armor already.

One Mad Queen vs. a Queen inching closer to being Mad. The war's outcome isn't gonna be pleasant either way, this season is still tense I will admit that.

I loved this episode, I thought it was great. Well, except for the ridiculousness of Euron coming out of nowhere and missandei being the only one captured.

@davillain-: They mentioned that it's about even in terms of pure numbers. However, Cersei's army has been resting and preparing this whole time while her enemies are all exhausted. Cersei has the advantage.

loving the season so far. i'm not typically a person to analyse every nit in a tv show or movie to pick it apart for flaws or genius. i enjoyed the shit out of it. that's enough for me.

the last bit of ep3 after the dead has been (re)risen and theon is killed in the lead up to the nk getting it, the music is fucking epic.

we're living in a golden age of entertainment folks. enjoy

though jon should have said a proper goodbye to his puppy. you don't do that to your doggo

OK, so Euron just has fucking aim bots now? What the hell. I liked the entire episode up until that part. What a shit death. What the hell are the writers thinking? Killing off a dragon is OK, killing it off in that stupid manner? Idiots.

Yeah, that was incredibly stupid. He can bullseye a flying dragon from a mile away with a scorpion - that seems to reload instantly. I mean, if they wanted to take out a dragon, it would have made more sense to simply have it die during the night king battle. I guess they're trying to go with the whole "enrage Dany" thing, but again, I can think of much better ways for Rhaegal to go out then that lamesauce death.

IMO, the writing has been shit this season. They keep attempting to pull surprises so that no one can guess what happens, that it just ends up being shallow. Right now, they're making it look like Dany will go insane and turn into her father, but I bet there's a twist at the end. Jon either dies or goes north of the wall and Dany sits the throne. Just because no one would expect it and that's what they seem to go for now.

They're terrible.

How does Euron not realize it's not his kid after Tyrion knows Cercei is pregnant?

Ghost completely wasted (as well as all the other direwolves).

How do the dragons, or scouts not see a freaking Armada right around the corner?

This kind of stupid writing has plauged this show since they ran out of material from that PoS GRRM.

For myself, I loved the first half of the show, but hated the second. Two conversations for this episode had to deal with Jon's claim to the throne. Two. And the idiots cut away from both and it happens off screen. Terrible.

I was a bit more forgiving for the battle of Winterfell, but that Dragon death just felt cheap and forced. They're trying too hard to force the Danny transformation bit, totally agreed.

Have Rhaegal save the other ships when ambushed by Euron, that would make a bit more sense (but still not really).

I just can't bring myself to get over the idiocy of the 'hidden' armada...during the day...flying black sails...FOR A THIRD TIME. Euron might as well have access to Romulan clocking technology at this point.

I'm probably too uptight about this piece but it's really turning me off.

Want a good laugh, head on over to reddit where people have already done the math on Euron's ballista tech. There's more force behind them than experimental navy rail guns. Absolutely pathetic writers.

I enjoyed the latest episode for the most part. It had the political banter the show had been missing for a while. Daenerys basically begging Jon to hide his origin really conveyed her desperation in the face of losing her claim to the throne. It was also good to see Varys in action again.

Euron's fleet killing one of the dragons was really surprising on the other hand. The dragons have been hyped for the entire show as these unstoppable beasts that push the odds in favor of Dany in every battle. It took the Night King to defeat one. And then... Euron Greyjoy, who killed one casually in a matter of seconds. And aren't dragons supposed to have hard as stone skin that projectiles cannot pierce?

Overall, this season has been the weakest of the show imo. They just rush to the end with no consideration for the development that took place for 7 seasons. With only two episodes remaining, I can't see how they can adequately wrap up all existing story threads.

@sonicare: I'm 100% with you on the Euron, Bran and Dany stuff. I'm really annoyed about the mad queen Dany stuff they seem to be going with, I don't think it fits with her character and it seems rushed for the sake of them wanting her and Jon to fight each other or her be killed by someone close to Jon

I read somewhere else that it's not Euron's Kid, so who's is it? Jaime's again?

There is also the fact that she and her army are inside a castle she has no reason to leave.

They were going to force her out using the dragons to destroy her supply line by sea but they have now lost a dragon and accomplished nothing.

I think Tyrion still had a plan to enter the castle somehow, those secret routes they take all the time during the show.

@R4gn4r0k: Ya, she told him that last season.

@R4gn4r0k: Destroying the supply lines and waiting is still tyrion and varys choice, but dany wants to burn shit