AOC proves once again that her detractors are dumb.

Wrong

In fact, AOC retweeted a tweet from Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg explaining the difference between concentration camps and death camps, well before she herself came out and compared the migrant camps to concentration camps. She then retweeted it again to own her critics.

4 days before her Instagram comment

https://twitter.com/TheRaDR/status/1139506452928827393

And lets look at Chuck Todd again.

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1141488146930184193

She didn't even need to own him, he already got owned.

Oh, lets see who else used the term concentration camp, oh, lookie here, Trump hero Sheriff Joe Arpaio

And really, this garbage 9 years ago is now showing today.

I find it abhorrent that you want to "talk rationally and moderately" about concentration camps. No, they aren't ones with gas chambers like in Nazi Germany, but they are very much akin to one's that America used to jail Japanese Americans back during WW2.

We are using these to separate children from their parents who are fleeing from wars going on in their own countries because people are afraid that they will get jobs and access to health care. And you defend these actions as "No particularly good solutions" as though we can't figure out how to keep families together and provide them support rather than keeping them in cages.

Talking about this moderately and rationally only serves to downplay how terrible this situation is and that we are the ones intentionally causing it. Outrage actually is the appropriate response in this scenario and really all scenarios where you see your government taking actions that can accurately be labeled as fascist.

Is it ok that they are not treated humanely, no, of course, it´s not, neither does that make them a concentration camp.

but at the end, until we have an independent source with ironclad evidence of that, then let´s not jump on the democrats scare wagon.

Should we take it all or ?

The term is most strongly associated with the several hundred camps established by the Nazis in Germany and occupied Europe 1933–45, among the most infamous being Dachau, Belsen, and Auschwitz.

All technicalities aside, it's a concentration camp. It's a detainment center for people who have committed zero crimes and are being treated inhumanely. Children are literally dying in them and being kept from their parents.

We need to stop getting caught up in what exactly makes a concentration camp what it is and start supporting people who think America is better than that. Clearly our current president is not better than that.

@ad1x2: I’m sure it has nothing at all to do with the left always pushing the whole all right wingers/ Trump are nazis narrative, it’s totally just a coincidence.

I have no idea who that rabbi is, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they aren’t very well known. One rabbi doesn’t represent all Jewish people, and there are plenty of people that are against the idea that we can compare the camps millions of Jews were murdered in to the detention centers on the border.

And I’m going to ask again, since nobody wants to answer, what are we supposed to do about it? Just tell everyone that crosses into the country illegally that they did a bad thing, but release them into the community and make them promise that they will show up to their immigration hearing? Is there any outrage whenever CPS takes a child from a US citizen parent that was arrested?

In some countries, illegal aliens are shot when they try to come in. Over here, we have millions of people saying we should give them the exact same rights as citizens. There is a process to enter the country legally, and there is a process to claim asylum involving presenting yourself at an embassy or a legal port of entry. Funny thing is all of the asylum requests we get from people in countries south of Mexico that decided not to apply for asylum there and just kept going until they reached our border.

Not all right wingers are nazis, it's just that nazis tend to support Trump and the hard right wing. There's basically zero leftist nazis at the moment.

Furthermore the alt-right, fascist, nazis actively piss me off more on a personal level than just about anyone else because they use both my current and former hobbies of anime and video games to recruit new members. They utilize terms such as "hide the power level" as a reference to DBZ to sound cool and hide just how into Nazism that they really are so they don't scare people off. They use the tern "NPC" to dehumanize people who don't believe the same things as they do. They also use "Kek" which is from WOW. They utilized Gamergate to get more people pissed off and join their movement.

This shit is real and it's scary, but ultimately it pisses me off far more than it scares be because they want people like the ones I am friends with to join them and believe in their bullshit. They even have a term for people who are mostly on their side of things, but not quite there just yet which is the "alt-lite" who they will try to convert by "hiding their (white) power level" from until the time is right. And we have a president right now who they really ****ing like and approve of. Just ctrl-f "Trump" and you will see him show up all over that page in a generally positive light.

All technicalities aside, AOC knew exactly what she was doing when she said the words concentration camp. The first thing that comes to most people’s minds are places like Auschwitz, and by doing that it makes you think about Nazis and by extension think of the Trump Administration as Hitler’s regime preparing to exterminate immigrants if they aren’t stopped by any means necessary (preferably by making him a one term president, but the constant Hitler comparisons could result in possibly violent methods to remove him from office).

If I’m not mistaken someone already posted a story talking about how AOC voted against additional funding for the immigration detainment facilities that had zero wall money included in the funding. That is money that could buy more supplies, hire more doctors, better train agents, etc. Children dying after they were malnourished from a thousand mile journey to our southern border is not something that would give a sane person joy, but to imply that they are being murdered or intentionally neglected to death by border patrol is dishonest.

As for children being separated from their parents, what is the solution? Put them in the same detainment facility as their parents, where they could possibly be molested by other detainees? Release them and their parents on their own recognizance and trust them to not skip their court hearing and drop off of the grid? Give every able-bodied immigrant that reaches our border amnesty even if it means giving millions of new immigrants citizenship every year? How is that fair to legal immigrants that went through the proper process to get their visas and eventual Green Cards?

What about the minors that are crossing the border with adults that aren‘t even related to them? Do you think we should put children here in the US with their parents if they get arrested rather than separate them, or is it only bad when immigrant children are separated from their parents and not US citizen children?

@ad1x2: "but the constant Hitler comparisons could result in possibly violent methods to remove him from office."

Did you have similarly strong feelings towards Trump when he said things that could have led to violent removals of scotus judges back in 2016? I'm just curious. You seem to be ready to blame AOC if someone tries to assassinate the president.

If you are referring to his “Second Amendment People” comment, most reasonable people considered that a rally to vote for him and against Clinton, not an actual request to assassinate judges. Such a request would have done nothing more than have him arrested and almost guarantee Clinton the presidency unless the GOP could have found a suitable replacement in time.

As for AOC, I don’t have to blame her. She was far from the first person to imply that the president is a Nazi, and many people have called him Hitler outright. Hollywood constantly acts like the world will end if Trump isn’t kicked out of the White House yesterday and replaced with a Democrat immediately.

But don’t take my word for it, Steve Scalise almost died two years ago because the media convinced a lunatic that he could save the country by murdering as many Republican lawmakers as possible.

@ad1x2: So, really, the answer is no. You're pretty much cool with extreme language so long as it's coming from the people you support.

Calling these detainment centers concentration camps is accurate and people in Congress should not continue to fund them and perpetuate their existence, they should be trying to do what AOC is doing, end them. Pure and simple.

You honestly believe Trump was calling for their assassination? All that would do would make them martyrs, not guarantee weak gun laws.

What are we going to do with illegal aliens if we don’t have the facilities, just release them? If so, do you think we might as well have open borders?

@Serraph105: I’m not naive enough to think that there are no racists that dwell in the right, just like I know there’s plenty on the left that hate white people, but I’m not going to pretend that the left isn’t pushing the nazi narrative for all it’s worth and trying to paint anything Trump does is racially motivated.

No, again it´s not a concentration camp, but don´t worry I know you like many others are just using it to scare people to support your agenda.

And no we don´t need to stop using terms correctly, it´s the way we know what we are talking about and can keep it consistent. Also, these people have broken the law and the only reason why they are being detained and not shipped back to wherever they come from is that we need to give them due process.

So don´t try to make this into a case of the administration and ice just randomly picking up illegals (you hopefully know what illegal mean) and sending them to "death camps"

Not death camps. Concentration camps. AOC, dictionaries, and historians make this clear. I'm sorry if accurate usage of the word Concentration Camp offends you.

"A Global History of Concentration Camps, has a more global definition. There have been concentration camps in France, South Africa, Cuba, the Soviet Union, and—with Japanese internment—the United States. In fact, she contends we are operating such a system right now in response to a very real spike in arrivals at our southern border.

Historians use a broader definition of concentration camps, as well."

"What's required is a little bit of demystification of it," says Waitman Wade Beorn, a Holocaust and genocide studies historian and a lecturer at the University of Virginia. "Things can be concentration camps without being Dachau or Auschwitz. Concentration camps in general have always been designed—at the most basic level—to separate one group of people from another group. Usually, because the majority group, or the creators of the camp, deem the people they're putting in it to be dangerous or undesirable in some way."

You don't really need to use scare tactics for this "agenda". All you need to do is simply describe it or use accurate dictionary/historical entries to name it.

Overcrowding, abuse seen at Mexico migrant detention center

Women slept in hallways among rats, roaches and pigeon droppings; mothers reused diapers. “They threw us in there like little animals,” a Honduran woman said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/overcrowding-abuse-seen-mexico-migrant-detention-center-n1018231

Lawyer: Inside an immigrant detention center in South Texas, 'basic hygiene just doesn't exist'

The attorney said running water is so bad that mothers save any bottled water they can to mix with baby formula. The stories she heard from people in the shelter echo tales at other facilities, where people say conditions are substandard.

https://www.texastribune.org/2019/06/23/immigrant-detention-center-mcalllen-overcrowded-filthy-conditions/

Why a Government Lawyer Argued Against Giving Immigrant Kids Toothbrushes

This assertion generated widespreadoutrage. Sarah Fabian, the senior attorney in the Department of Justice’s Office of Immigration Litigation who uttered it, was instantly excoriated online. As fate would have it, the clip of her argument went viral at the same time as a new wave of reports of brutal and inhumaneconditions at immigrant confinement centers. It also immediately followed the raucous debate over Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez referring to the confinement centers as concentration camps. The juxtaposition suggested, misleadingly, that the Trump administration was explicitly justifying the worst sorts of child mistreatment we were seeing on the news.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/06/why-sarah-fabian-argued-against-giving-kids-toothbrushes/592366/

Fighting over accurate usage of word because it triggers you is stupid. We should fight over better conditions at these places.

@zaryia: Could you try to keep your responses cleaner?

Anyways you are talking about undocumented allegations from people on a certain side, again provide independently verified sources who have no dog in the fight and we can look at those.

And let´s take a well-known encyclopaedia

Concentration camp, internment centre for political prisoners and members of national or minority groups who are confined for reasons of state security, exploitation, or punishment, usually by executive decree or military order. Persons are placed in such camps often on the basis of identification with a particular ethnic or political group rather than as individuals and without benefit either of indictment or fair trial. Concentration camps are to be distinguished from prisons interning persons lawfully convicted of civil crimes and from prisoner-of-war camps in which captured military personnel are held under the laws of war. They are also to be distinguished from refugee camps or detention and relocation centres for the temporary accommodation of large numbers of displaced persons.

I hope I don´t have to explain the word distinguished..... So can we stop with the BS and call things what they are?

So "Fake News". Got ya. I'll take that one as your concession.

And many historians and dictionaries disagree, like the ones I posted.

So I guess it remains ambiguous. I would be more worried about the conditions of those people than being triggered over a word that can be used in multiple cases.

Even your brown hating hero Joe Arpaio (who you oddly defended tooth and nail, which seriously calls into question any of your stances on this issue) called them concentration camps.

What does having confirmation from independently verified sources have to do with fake news? you hopefully remember your basic school knowledge about sources?

And what historians and "dictionaries", because we are not talking about some random encyclopaedia here, Britannica is a well-known well-established source and is used all over the world as a tool for fact-checking, so sorry your link to USnews and some random historian from Bolingbroke liberal arts does not count towards it being anywhere near ambiguous, But I get that what you are doing here are Anti-vaxxers and climate deniers well-known strategy.

You are saying all news reports and their sources on this are false, which is unlikely and something Trump would do. You are only doing this because you don't like the story.

Are you also suggesting these judges and this Trump lawyer ARE lying?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/06/why-sarah-fabian-argued-against-giving-kids-toothbrushes/592366/

"What would it take to make one go viral? This week, in a clip that launched a million angry Facebook posts, we found out. It took a lawyer for the United States telling a panel of incredulous Ninth Circuit judges that it is “safe and sanitary” to confine immigrant children in facilities without soap or toothbrushes and to make them sleep on concrete floors under bright lights."

MIKE PENCE IS LYING?

"Vice President Mike Pence said the conditions in migrant detention centers are "heartbreaking" and "totally unacceptable,"

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/23/pence_blames_congress_for_heartbreaking_and_unacceptable_conditions_in_migrant_detention_centers.html

By linking phd historians, other encyclopedias, dictionaries, and a world renown expert on concentration camps? Clearly there is a disagreement here, and AOC isn't 100% wrong. Also the expert went to MIT and worked at Harvard, what do you mean. The historian's credentials,

• PhD, History, 2011, University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill, NC
• Master’s Degree, History, April 2007, University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill, NC
• Bachelor of Science, History, June 2000, United States Military Academy, West Point, NY

"Bolingbroke liberal arts"??

#americanexceptionalism

I said come with independent sources, not someone who has a dog in the fight.

And sure the conditions are not the best but what do you expect? funding is low and they keep pouring over in caravans in the thousands.

As to concentration camps, sorry that guys credentials are while decent still not even comparable to Britannica, a well-established encyclopaedia who have a well-established peer-reviewed and editor proven system.

@ad1x2: "You honestly believe Trump was calling for their assassination?"

I didn't honestly believe that we would see the return of concentration camps when this happened, but here we are. Recent events are leading me to reevaluate a lot of my early assumptions about this president.

Well, Mike Pence wouldn't lie now would he? He seems to agree with all of those vast sources the News is using. As do the Judges I linked.

Not just that guy. Also concentration camp expert Andrea Pitzer. Other Encyclopedias put detention camp examples in their concentration camp articles, as long as people have died or are being treated poorly. Dictionaries use it as such as well.

Should probably worry about those people and less about loose words.

Pence is Pence

And of coruse left-leaning historians in America will back up an opinion that backs their side.

But let´s see Oxford

a type of prison, often consisting of a number of buildings inside a fence, where political prisoners, etc. are kept in extremely bad conditions

Cambridge

a place where largenumbers of people are kept as prisoners in extremelybadconditions,especially for politicalreasons:

Naziconcentrationcamps

Time Magazine

https://time.com/tag/concentration-camp/

Smithsonian

https://www.timesofisrael.com/smithsonian-channel-explores-uk-concentration-camps-in-adolf-island/

Before the first prisoner entered the Soviet Gulag, before “Arbeit macht frei” appeared on the gates of Auschwitz, before the 20th century had even begun, concentration camps found their first home in the cities and towns of Cuba.

The earliest modern experiment in detaining groups of civilians without trial was launched by two generals: one who refused to bring camps into the world, and one who did not.

Read more: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/concentration-camps-existed-long-before-Auschwitz-180967049/#YH8ufQLf1WFdsm7m.99

But don´t worry I know you are going full Climate denial mode here and no amount of evidence or facts will convince you that while these detainment centres may be bad because of underfunding and overcrowding, they are not and never will be a concentration camp.

I’ve already said it several times, people trying to get technical are avoiding the main purpose of AOC’s statement, which is to make people think of Nazis when they think of immigrant detention. If they meet one definition of concentration camps then so be it, we need to be better in how we treat them and ensure it no longer meets that definition. That doesn’t change the fact that people against them want you to think of Nazi death camps when they call them concentration camps regardless of what the technical definition is.

I still haven’t received an answer from any poster, so I’ll ask again. What is the solution? Just let them go and give them all amnesty? How would that be fair to legal immigrants that followed the process and paid their fees? Immediate deportation seems to be an unpopular alternative since organizations like the ACLU say we should give them due process instead of immediate deportation like many other countries do. At the same time, we are being told not to fund the camps even if more funding means better living conditions.

it was stupid on her part because whether or not technically accurate, you KNOW people are going to wet themselves at the chance to jump all over it and get into semantics arguments as a means to deflect from addressing the actual issue.

why try to address the difficult issue of children in detention in shit conditions when you can take the easy road and ding AOC on her metaphors?

@ad1x2:

The solution is quite simple two things, either give ICE more funding to run these detainment centres so they can provide better care and hire more lawyers and more judges to make processing them and deporting as easy and quick as possible.

Because the end result needs to be the same, these people have no legal right to be in America and they should be deported instantly.

@Jacanuk is saying that isn't happening even when you press him off of the semantics debate.

He said all the news sources on it are wrong, the judges are wrong, and Mike Pence is defending something that isn't happening.

Tell me where you are getting your info to say all news sources, Mike Pence, Trump, politicians who have visited the centers, and the Judges in that video are all wrong on this issue.

Texas Republican: Migrant conditions in his state the 'worst' he's seen

Rep. Michael McCaul (R-Texas) said Sunday that conditions in migrant detention facilities in the Lone Star State were the “worst” he’s ever seen.

“I've been down there throughout my 15 years in Congress and before that, as a federal prosecutor. This is the worst I've ever seen it, and it has to be taken care of,” McCaul said on CBS’s “Face the Nation.”

Hush, no more lies please.

Merriam Webster:

concentration camp

noun

Definition of concentration camp

: a place where large numbers of people (such as prisoners of war, political prisoners, refugees, or the members of an ethnic or religious minority) are detained or confined under armed guard

Dictionary.com :

WORD ORIGIN

SEE MORE SYNONYMS FOR concentration camp ON THESAURUS.COM

concentration camp

noun

a guarded compound for the detention or imprisonment of aliens, members of ethnicminorities, political opponents, etc., especially any of the camps established by the Nazis priorto and during World War II for the confinement and persecution of prisoners.

Experts Agree, apart from that world renown concentration camp historian I cited:

WHAT IS A CONCENTRATION CAMP? EXPERTS AGREE WITH ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ ON BORDER FACILITIES

https://www.newsweek.com/concentration-camps-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-trump-border-1444843

But many experts were quick to point out that, by definition, the ICE detention facilities are concentration camps. The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines a concentration camp as, "a place where large numbers of people (such as prisoners of war, political prisoners, refugees, or the members of an ethnic or religious minority) are detained or confined under armed guard."

Many argue that this definition matches the detention centers currently set up on the southern border.

"Why are they called concentration camps? Well, to state the obvious, it's because large numbers of people are 'concentrated' in camps. A better question is, why don't we just call them prisons? We don't say 'prisons' because prisons are a part of the formal legal system," Lester Andrist, a sociologist who has studied indefinite detention, tweeted.

Andrist argues that the U.S. has a long history of establishing such facilities, including the Japanese-American internment camps that existed during World War II and, mostly recently, Guantanamo Bay. George Takei, the 82-year-old American actor of Japanese descent who is best known for his role in the Star Trek movies and television show, took to Twitter to share his perspective.

"I know what concentration camps are. I was inside two of them, in America. And yes, we are operating such camps again," the Takei tweeted. The Takei family was interned in Arkansas and California in the 1940s.

Federico Finchelstein, a historian at the New York-based New School, agreed thatthe progressive congresswoman is right to call the ICE facilities concentration camps.

"As [a] historian of fascism & [the] Holocaust, I would also call these centers concentration camps," Finchelstein tweeted. "As a Jewish person who lost family in [the] Holocaust, I regret that some Republicans use memory of the Holocaust to defend racist policies of Trumpism."

In May, a top Pentagon official called China's detention camps holding Uighur Muslims and other ethnic minorities "concentration camps" despite the fact that genocide has not been committed there.

Yad Vashem, Israel's official memorial to the victims of the holocaust, however, was one of the institutions that pushed back against Ocasio-Cortez's claims.

Seems none of you folk just shouting for more money watched Kirstjen Nielsen's testimony in congress where she admitted to thousands of unfilled positions and deep levels of systemic incompetence in the DHS leadership. Kirstjen Nielsen, who "resigned" and has yet to have a legitimate replacement, I might add, as the administration runs around like headless chickens with a skeleton crew cabinet.

Chucking money at a bunch of dumbasses isn't going to make them see the light. We need to redo the entire border security program on multiple levels.

As for the topic specifically, I don't know what else you call a place where they hold a collection of individuals under very specific and politically motivated terms, and won't even allow basics for sanitation and medical consideration. But what you choose to call them is largely irrelevant. What matters is that the "greatest" nation in the world is completely failing at handling a humanitarian issue, and it's not just embarrassing, but immoral as well.

If/when Biden loses in 2020, she is going to cake walk to the Whitehouse in '24. Love that woman!

Maybe they should offer higher pay for those positions?

Maybe they should try to recruit people with competence to fill those positions?

@zaryia: Language isn't always literary

col·lo·qui·al·ism

/kəˈlōkwēəˌlizəm/

a word or phrase that is not formal or literary, typically one used in ordinary or familiar conversation."the colloquialisms of the streets"

who gives a shit what experts think because she is not communicating with experts. She is communicating with the

lay·man

/ˈlāmən/

a person without professional or specialized knowledge in a particular subject."the book seems well suited to the interested layman"

Pretending people are stupid or wrong for utilizing common language tropes is what we call a

gas·light

/ˈɡaslīt/

manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.

Redo entire border security while funding is getting stonewalled? I don't follow. Your proposal would cost a lot more money than just building more detention centers.

Have the government do it, not a private middleman company which only seeks profits and will cut every corner it can get away with.

Have you ever noticed how freely liberals toss around the terms fascism, nazi's, concentration camp, etc.., While it is alarming, it is completely expected from such people.

While at the same time we've got the same Democratic politicians claiming evil Jew money is influencing our politics.

They are concentration camps according to expert historians who specifically study concentration camps and several dictionaries.

You're splitting hairs. I'd be more concerned at the conditions of these facilities which is a direct result of Trump policy and has been bad well before the (D) House.

P.S. If they actualy said "evil Jews" instead of Israel(which is true), then I agree with you that silly.

I noticed how conservatives hide behind perceived liberal acts rather than face the reality of what's happening......not in a positive way..........in the country. Heads buried in sand much.

Talk about irony.

It's not like the situations improve over night if we agree on calling them detainment camps. The living conditions, or lack of, are still terrible.

I know you're a farm bot and all but why respond if you're ignoring the point? I'm telling you that per the former secretary and multiple whistleblowers in the DHS, the issue is less about funding and more about deep levels of incompetence in DHS and ICE leadership. Direct orders to do illegal shit that had to be ignored, mismanagement of income, leaving staff positions unfilled, privatizing work to unproven contractors. We had yet another executive quit today as John Sanders is stepping down from the chair position, and the secretary position has yet to be properly filled (McAleenan is only an acting secretary at this moment.)

But if blind funding is all you're concerned about, he's a fun tidbit: The house is rushing up 4.5 billion in funding, before the 4th, to improve the quality of life in these facilities. Trump is threatening to veto.

So maybe shut the **** up about "stonewalling" and "budget" already. That leg is not yours to stand on.

To what degree and in what ways would you change the conditions?

How about beds, blankets and toothbrushes to begin with? Oh and not separate children from their parents.

Note that I realize the need for these camps, at least it is one way to deal with this issue. But you don't need inhumane living conditions there. From what I notice most people are reacting to the living conditions there, not that you have a lot of people gathered in these places.

Apparently you don't understand what irony means.

Why are they in these camps?

Irony means when someone eats a lot of iron, you say, "Boy that person looks irony".

@Vaasman: trump is the one who requested the aid back on May 1st, dems arent rushing to do anything. When he first asked this from congress aoc said "not one more dollar".

Now that optics of the facillities are bad, dems are considering giving him the money now. Trump is the one who litteraly requested the money...

www.politico.com/amp/story/2019/05/01/white-house-emergency-border-immigration-1296437

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/trump-administration-requests-45-billion-border-funding/story%3fid=62756128.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1000706

So you're on the Dem's nuts for taking a mere month to find/deliver a solution to this Trump disaster (which might get shot down by the GOP) but don't have a problem with these horrible overcrowded and poor conditioned centers for over 1 year and the fact he caused this all?

Yikes.

And another victory for AOC, and huge for her influence in NYC. Its not only in her endorsement of Caban, which changed the race, but her political tactics which Caban used, were the key decisive factor in this race.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election/aocs-backing-boosts-new-york-progressive-in-local-democratic-primary-idUSKCN1TR0AV

Those that doubt her political skill are played for fools once again. And this primary actually shows that AOC is a lock to win re-election in her district if nothing out of the ordinary happens. Funny how the idiotic far right and that stupid Stop AOC pack look foolish for thinking her district doesn't like her.