Ellen Page has changed her name to Elliot Page

I'm just going to repeat something I wrote in one of the other threads about this. A friend of mine recently came out trans, was surprised to find her "redneck, Trump voter family" were all very supportive and understanding. They get that gender is a spectrum, and she needs to be true to herself. I gives me hope hear there are people out there on all sides of politics that understand this really isn't a political issue.

Yeah, conservatives will fight to the death for freedom and personal liberties...as long as people strictly conform to their limited, poorly-educated perspective of the world.

@Planeforger: amen.

They're the most toxic, negative people around. You're not allowed to be happy if you don't agree with conservative ideals, even when it has no impact on their lives.

Why do you care what someone else does so much as long as it hurts no one else? Conservatives seem as obsessed about this as the SJWs. Maybe more so.

There's some kind of weird fixation and infatuation with Trans, Gays, Weed, College Campuses, etc. and other "culture war" issues and getting mad when other people do stuff. Well I guess that stuff is better than anti-masker bullshit, which is primarily a right wing movement.

In the words/lyrics of Ray Stevens: You be you and I'll be me.

@Maroxad: By the simple fact you listed people with genetic deformities and a video game character that doesn’t exist lol.

I like Elliot Page. She is mildly talented as an actress. It’s just awkward to see leftist weirdos claim people must accept her as a male, while also claiming it doesn’t effect us. Which contradicts your argument that it doesn’t effect us, while demanding we accept this, hence making it effect us. I mean, would you want some random chick like Elliot Page walking in seeing you take a leak? Would you want Kaitlyn Jenner or whatever his name is walking in on your wife or daughter in a bathroom?

Men and women are different. That’s a good thing. Ever see Lucia Rijker (arguably the greatest female kickboxer and female boxer of all time) fight an amateur kick boxing male? She got destroyed. She was a professional and the best in her sport and yet she got destroyed by an amateur in the sport.

Men are just better physically gifted than females. It’s science. It’s beautiful. Elliot Page is a beautiful woman. Has been since birth. And that’s also beautiful. She was born a female. She currently lives as a female. She will eventually die as a female. The only thing she has changed......... is her name.

@judaspete Social Conservatism is such a garbage ideology. Good riddance to the fact that every younger generation is moving further and further away from it.

Again, those are not necessarily due to genetic deformities, and the fact that you are still caught up on the video game character shows how little you deal with hypotheticals.

Exactly what difference does it make? Calling them by their preferred pronoun? Is it really such a burden? If anything it makes it a lot less confusing. If someone is named Elliot, using the pronoun "he" rather than "she", is far easier. Misgendering is simply put too much effort. As for the gendered bathroom thing? Who cares? Your appeals to emotion didnt work. We dont even have gendered bathrooms over here. All of them are sex neutral. And quite frankly, we find the concept of gendered bathrooms to be quite weird. Bathroom bills in particular being extremely dumb with no basis in evidence.

The rest is irrelevent. Evidence seems to indicate that transwomen should compete with men, if they transitioned after puberty. As it allowed them to train as men and they have a bunch of other advantages. At least if they transitioned after puberty.

Elliot was always male. Gender has always been a cultural/psychological thing. This has been the case for at least 20 years, which is when I first learnt of the differentiation of sex and gender. Things have changed, he is now living as male, and most people refer to him as just that. From what I hear, his phenotypes will change eventually too. Though he will always remain genotypically female, he will become phenotypically male, while already having the male gender. That is two thirds of the parts being male. At that point, wouldnt it make sense to refer him to as he/him and male? Even now, because his gender is male, I think that is more than enough of a reason to call him male.

Denying that transgender people are valid is just as silly as denying climate change or asserting that being gay is a choice. Why be wrong?

Edit: What is it with you people trying to put political leanings into everything? Not every right wing party in the world is as insane as the GOP are. In fact, I can assure you, transgender rights are met with bipartisan support in several countries. I find myself often defending conservatives, because people associate the insanity of the BJP, GOP or Social Liberal Party (Brazil), with the more sane right wing parties all over the world.

@MirkoS77: So what are the negative repercussions?

@Maroxad: Because it is genetic lol. You used people with genetic deformities and a character that is fake to justify Elliot Page. Forgive me for laughing at you but LOL.

I’m not “misgendering” anyone. You are. The difference is, my view is backed by science. Real hard science. Your opinion is backed by feelings. That’s it.

Elliot is a nice girl. What’s the big deal?

I wish Elliot Page well in the future endeavors that are presented. Definitely enjoyed the work from Inception and X-Men.

-

On a different note, a common relative moral argument from progressives which always raises an eyebrow: "how does this effect you! who does it hurt!." Why have immutable traits at all? Fluidity in age, fluidity in race, etc. In a time where science is placed on a pedestal, it certainly gets put on the backburner for gender dysphoria.

It is what it is.

Do you believe that children find gender role models important, and do you believe it is healthy for a child to be brought up with each parent exemplifying behavior concordant with their gender? Or do you believe that's a complete non-issue?

And again, just to reiterate, I'm not against a man or a woman transitioning. I'll support them in their wishes respective to what they identify as, but in that, I believe that roles are important as children look to each of their parents in example of what "defines" them in society according to their gender and sex, and how they'll fit in behaviorally and what expectations and behavior society will hold them to.

I'm not arguing that people who've transitioned aren't capable of doing this, again, brain studies have shown that transgenders literally have similar function to the gender they feel as, so I think it's perfectly fine. My issue, again, is the watering down of the delineation of the sexes. There needs to be a line separating them.

@MirkoS77: I think is a complete non-issue, tbh. These are all similar arguments we heard regarding the normalization of homosexual relationships, and just like with that controversy when/if they are normalized I strongly suspect the impact to our lives will be... Nothing. They'll still be the minority, gender roles models will still exist (and be the majority example) if you think that's important, and the biggest impact will likely be to their lives, not ours.

Maroxad is right in that the delineation is already murky by nature (function, structure, mind, and genetics all break down in certain ways). I'm just hard pressed to find a viable reason why I should care about which side someone falls on or how stringent that delineation is.

I knew homosexuality would be brought up in response. Drastically different, that's strictly a sexual preference, not an entire gender identity that determines pretty much everything about you. There are many gay men who remain masculine, identify as men, and lesbians who remain feminine and identify as women. They're not all effeminate flamers and butch.

Yes the delineation is biologically murky, but that's not really how society operates which is the basis I'm arguing from. With a few exceptions, men are men and women are women. We are different, and there's nothing wrong with that. I believe we should appreciate and protect those differences, not marginalize them in striving for homogeneity.

Not necessarily, with the Pygmy people? Sure, but the others, there is almost certainly a mixture of genetics and environment? Environmental reasons factor into it too, which is why height varies every generation. For further evidence, just look at monozygote twins. While they are usually the same height, there are other pairs of twins, where one is noticeable taller than the other.

Yes, you are misgendering. You are once again confusing sex with gender. Going against what is generally accepted by modern psychologists and doctors. I would suggest that you stop deluding yourself, willful ignorance is not a healthy habit.

Dont use science as a buzzword, and please dont use logic as a buzzword either (thankfully you arent guilty of the latter, but a lot of other people are). Loaded language is not a good debate tactic.

Personally, I will go ahead and agree with the...

• American Psychological Association
• American Medical Association
• American Psychoanalytic Association
• American Academy of Pediatrics
• American College of Osteopathic Pediatricians
• World Medical Association
• World Health Organization
• National Health Service
• And many many more credible medical organizations who just happen to see Transgender people as entirely valid

Not really.

Most medical associations, including the World Health Organization accept transgender people as valid.

Evidence also implies that letting them transition GENERALLY (although this is a case by case basis) leads to the best outcomes (here is a meta-analysis where 51/55 studies showed positive results). Reparative therapy is also widely discredited and evidence points out is very harmful (https://www.hrc.org/resources/the-lies-and-dangers-of-reparative-therapy).

Edit: As for me, the reason I accept Transgender People as valid, is because autopsies of transgender people have effectively demonstrated the neurological make up of transgender people to be akin to the gender they identify with, rather than the sex they were assigned with at birth. Although this isnt always the case. Unless someone goes around and claims we can change our genotype, I dont see any issues with it.

I view it like this: Replace Male and Female with the colors Blue and Yellow.

Blue and Yellow can exist as separate and distinct colors while a blend of these colors exists on a spectrum in between them. View this as a gradient. People arguing that only Blue and Yellow exist are obviously wrong seeing as Green, and many shades similar, exist. This is observed in reality. On the flip side, arguing that only Green exists is also wrong. Knowing that Green exists doesn't detract from Blue or Yellow.

I'm not sure people are arguing for homogeneity. The fight is for acknowledgment that a fluid medium exists between both of our 'traditional' gender identity profiles.

You also have to have some perspective. Science is placed on a pedestal for the left on exponentially more important issues like Climate Change. Something many on the right are objectively and dangerously wrong about. Not culture war bait.

We can have even more fun by examining 'Sequential Hermaphroditism'. There are plenty of documented species that change sex, even as part of it's life cycle. An argument that 'what you're born with is what you are' isn't a rule that the animal kingdom abides by. I mean for f*ck's sake, Jurassic Park is based around this concept.

What's going to happen when we develop technology that grants us this ability in the future? Gene tailoring is going to be a thing whether we like it or not. Who knows what the future will hold in that regard.

Dangerously wrong about? The anti-science climate alarmists such as yourself have yet to be right about anything. Weren't our coastal cities supposed to be under water years ago? Didn't exactly happen, did it? No new ice age, Polar bears aren't going extinct, hurricanes have not increased in either rate nor severity, the left has been wrong about every single prediction they've ever made on the subject. It just shows you the left follows political trends and calls it science, than it actually being any such thing, showing just how extremely anti-science they really are. It's no surprising as uneducated as the left is, they can no longer tell the difference between men and women.

@sheep99: becuse she is a famous celebrity that knows that doing this may vary well elevated here to the Hollywood A list now that she is the talk of the town.

@Maroxad: Actually you’re wrong.

https://www.heritage.org/gender/commentary/sex-reassignment-doesnt-work-here-the-evidence

Not surprised, since you’re view on the matter isn’t backed by science. Before or after the “transition” is no different. The outcome is identical in all matters including Suicide attempts and deaths. In fact, Over the last decade as “reassignment surgery” has increased among the gender identity disorder communities, more and more wish they could transition back. Unfortunately they are unable to after mutilating their genitals. But suicide rates actually decrease when transitioning back.

So, yeah. Elliot is a woman. This is a fact. It’s an undeniable fact. Your opinion really is irrelevant. And Elliot, no matter how she feels, is gonna have to accept people won’t be forced to give into her delusions.

@Maroxad: I think you are misunderstanding the context of the post; it's not to dismiss the validity of gender dysphoria; as it's widely and thoroughly acknowledged by the DSM-5 and global psychiatric organizations.

Good for him. If a bit of change can enrich his life then it’s fantastic news.

It’s a shame that some people have a problem with how another identifies themselves!

The bigger shame that with all history, science and education some people still do not understand the difference between sex and gender!

I wanna be an elephant. Sympathize with me. Write a story about me.

@zaryia I do agree Climate Change is MUCH more important than the validity of Transgender People. But even here, they are flat out wrong, I wonder... do they take pride in being dead wrong on damn near everything?

@BlackShirt20 You are using a blog... To counter a meta-analysis? Not to mention, one from a well known propaganda piece, citing some VERY dubious studies. I am well aware of the studies linked in there, and they are widely considered garbage.

Are you being serious right now?

Not to mention, I spoke of transitioning, which doesn't necessarily mean sex reassignment surgery. But as it turns out there is a meta-analysis on this too, here you go.

Expert pieces are fine and all (I believe the blog you linked was written by a physician). But when someone is using, meta-analyses, and highly respected work. It would be in your interest to use something more than a blog.

That swedish 30 year study, while studying over the course of 30 years is good, it has a serious issue. Sweden wasn't always the super progressive country it is today. Sweden used to forcibly sterilize minorities, including transgender people. With sterilization being a condition for anyone who wished to transition, which as previously noted, doesn't HAVE to mean HRT or sex change surgeries. Sterilization being a condition for Conversion only ended in 2012. The discrimination that took place during the time (especially discrimination from the law itself), naturally made life worse.

Perhaps, I was really tired when making the post. But yeah, transmen are men, transwomen are women. That is also accepted.

I dont care what he decides to do. If he wants to identify as a male that's fine it has nothing to do with me, absolutely nothing.

The only thing I'm against is allowing kids to decide what gender they want to be or having surgery. Any parent that allows something like that to happen needs to be locked up, though again it doesn't have anything to do with me it still bothers me when kids are involved and I heard stories about such things. When the kid has grown up, matured and become an adult, then they can decide what they want to do.

She seems like a stable human being.

What was that story a couple years back? A 50+ year old male decided to identify as a 6 year old girl... Yeah, seems legit and perfectly sane to identify as something you clearly are not. (sarcasm)

Do you think if I identified as a 6'8 black man with athletic skills far better than what I really have that I could get a job in the NBA? And if they don't play along, can I sue them too?

This needs moved to OT as it's not a political thread.

Nah. The one in OT is dead. This is fun to read. Don't like it then don't read it.

Hey you guys wanted political out so keep your threads there.

Not me bro! You got me confused with @madrocketeer

This topic is most certainly political.

I HAVE BEEN SUMMONED!

(Quick skim read)

Yeah, keep this dumpster fire in this quarantine zone. Better dead than awful.

I HAVE BEEN UNSUMMONED!

Nope. What someone chooses to do in their own life is most certainly not political. But much like the pandemic the GOP is making it political.

Oh yes, reductio ad absurdum. We last saw versions of this reasoning when people proclaimed that allowing gays to be married would lead to Turtle and Human marriages.

McConnell's married isn't he?

I don't have a problem with gays and lesbians. And screw marriage.

Its December 5th 2020, Elliot Page is still female. Fact.

Thank you.

Thanks for the laugh!

I am extremely disappointed in the mods for allowing this thread to exist.

Religion also encompasses a worldview, and that also often has nothing to do with politics. If a zookeeper converts from Protestantism to Islam it might make some people uncomfortable and someone might have something to say about it, but that doesn't make it political.

Discomfort with changing norms is only political if there is some subject around which compromise and dispute over our governance is at issue or could potentially arise. If there is no decision to be made, then there is no politics. Is someone proposing something? The mere existence of Transsexuals' is only political if you think something should be done about their existence. Do you want to ban Trans people? That would be political. It would be hateful, but political.

@Seiki_sands: No, I do not want to ban them, and you speak nonsense. States are currently in hot debates over things like bathroom privileges, ethics of hormone blockers on children, and discrimination laws. It all comes down to how trans people self identify, and how much the wider society is willing to go along with it.

Identity is a two way game. When you demand society at large to make accommodations, it inherently makes it political. Especially when you insinuate hatred on a certain side

@vl4d_l3nin: Elliot Page is a child on hormone blockers? He was descriminated against legally or in some other way?

Oh wait, your next sentence explains it.

"It all comes down to how trans people self identify, and how much the wider society is willing to go along with it."

Precisely what should society do about all those trans people self-identifying?

Boy, do I feel silly, this wasn't a surreptitious way of condemning the existence of a transexual human, at all. The mods should feel proud of themselves.

@Seiki_sands: