If you fight for the rights of fetuses...

...while at the same time, attacking immigrant children who are being mistreated in holding cells and do not have access to basic needs like food, clean water, soap and toothbrushes, you’re a hypocrite and a racist. Change my mind.

No seriously, it’s unbelievable how many conservatives I see on social media who say fetuses are innocent and must be protected but then also post about immigrant children and they wouldn’t be in the situation they are in had they not come with their parents and tried to come in to the US illegally.

Lol come on man. Abortion is cool and your post is a giant Strawman.

Thats like me saying by giving incentives to illegal aliens to come and be protected from deportation you are endorsing 3 year olds being dragged miles through the dessert to die of dehydration.

@jeezers: I really don’t see how anyone can this level of thinking and not expose it for whatever it is. How are people who are supposedly “‘moral” and “religious” supporting a president who does nothing of the sort? It’s hypocritical. Would you fight for that fetus if it was gay or not American? Because it appears many conservatives wouldn’t.

trying to conflate abortion with undocumented children is a jump man. Be mad at congress, it took them forever to fund the crisis at the border.

Who was telling you there was no crisis at the border? That the caravan was nothing more than a scare hoax? "Not one more dollar!"- AOC for example.

But i'm happy that you are aware there is an illegal immigration issue, child trafficking issues, and drug trafficking issues.

We are catching over 100,000 illegal immigrants crossing a month now, we already broke the numbers of last year by the month of April this year. Our border security doesn't have the resources to handle the influx and our border is wide open.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjYtR9WbgcI&t=13s

Maybe we need to send them to sanctuary cities since we cant secure our borders. Those places have tons of money to take care of them. Like in San Francisco, democrats make sure everyone is living the good life, no poverty or homelessness, nothing but prosperity. If anyone is capable of taking care of these undocumented children and adults its the sanctuary cities.

As far as religion, i wouldn't know i'm not a religious person. But my guess is that even religious people know they can only fix but so much.

If your really stirred up, quit your job and go down to the border to help. Seriously it might bring you some closure.

That's easy, they only care about them until they are born. As soon as the baby is there, they don't care anymore. Honestly if you care so much about lifes, you should go social and not force children onto poor families

Please take the initiative and educate yourself on the definition on racism.

@joebones5000: what are the democrats proposing then???? You put it all on trump. They say walls are immoral, they call the facillities processing illegals immoral and wont fund them. So what DO YOU WANT TO DO?

I'm sick and tired of democrats complaining and virtue signaling without proposing any ideas. They just block every proposal, complain, and wipe there hands clean from any responsibility.

We have no wall and YES illegal immigration is at its highest its been for the last 10 years.

What do you want to see happen? Let me guess open borders?? The fact you give the democrats a 100% on not doing shit is rediculous. You may hate the idea of securing the boarder with a physical barrier, but ATLEAST its an idea. Trump asked for 4 billion and nancyshumer said no, waste of money, immoral.

Fast forward to now and democrats are no longer calling the crysis a lie and are agreeing to pass 4.5 billion in funding. Now that people are seeing how cramped and limited in resources the facilities are in I guess the problem is real now eh?

Not 4.5 billion for a border wall

4.5 billion in humanitarian aid because we have no boarder and cant handle the influx.

Eventually it was going to pop, thats what people have been trying to tell you, but keep ignoring the problem. Its just a manufactured crisis right.

Not to mention the actual criminals sprinkled in these massive groups of economic migrants. Kids are being sent across the boarder alone, seperate from any actual family, smugglers are trafficking children, massive amounts of heroin cut with fetanal being smuggled in. Kids dying of the flu getting dragged across a dessert to cross illegally, because assholes are lying to them and saying if they breach the border they will be able to stay.

There are real reasons we have a legal process and democrats do nothing but say shut down ice, no physical barrier, no funding for the detainment centers. They dont give a shit about these kids, all they care about is going against trump. Complete fools, I hated the republicans and still do, but the democrats have reached a low i never thought possible.

It is not illegal to volunteer for the government, people do it all of the time with military and veteran organizations. If conditions are so deplorable, maybe you should gather all of your friends and volunteer at the closest immigration facility to help ease the burden. They need the volunteers since politicians are screaming how inhumane conditions are, but they refuse to pay a single dime to improve those conditions. Do you think vendors are going to give those supplies (to include beds) for free? Do you think those full-time workers are going to take a paycut?

This will be a large portion of Trump's legacy. People will remember these camps and the children contained within. I mean, they straight up denied providing them toiletries the other day. Basic hygiene materials. Remember the adage, 'A society can be judged by how it treats it's prisoners', or in this case, 'migrants criminals'.

If the left had its way, these invaders would be allowed to roam the United states freely.

The issue isnt about life for conservatives. They are pro war, pro death penalty, pro insurance companies, pro big pharma, and pro environmental deregulation. They clearly give absolutely no damn about life.

The issue is about control. As long as the left continues to give conservatives their moral high ground on the subject rather than call it for what it is, they lose, and we let the pretenders pretend.

Be mad at the Trump administration for starting this mess and carrying it on for years, and the GOP Congress for doing nothing as well, mostly. At least the Dems are now in the works on funding it. Always cleaning up the GOP's mess.

This is not a straw-man. Several GOP nutjobs are anti-abortion while defending these concentration camps at all costs.

Yawn,

This is all nonsense. The GOP Congress did even less and that was when all of this actually started for almost 2 years. Trump screwed the pooch with his no tolerance policy and changing migrant laws. Now the Dem Congress is cleaning up their mess and you're crying about it.

@jeezers said: Fast forward to now and democrats are no longer calling the crysis a lie and are agreeing to pass 4.5 billion in funding. Now that people are seeing how cramped and limited in resources the facilities are in I guess the problem is real now eh?

So now you're mad that they are fixing Trump's mess when the GOP Congress couldn't?

That's how it always goes. The GOP fucks up and the freshly elected Dems fix it, and you cry that they aren't fixing it as fast as you want.

@jeezersI'm sick and tired of democrats complaining and virtue signaling without proposing any ideas. They just block every proposal, complain, and wipe there hands clean from any responsibility.

Sounds like you are describing Cocaine Mitch. Dems gave billions in border funding.

@zaryia: your acting foolish. Your a democrat, you respect the new york times. read it

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/politics/white-house-border-funding.html

Trump started and created this mess, and during most of it GOP controlled Congress. This is a fact.

This includes horrific conditions in 2017 AND 2018.

Immigration detention under Trump[edit]

See also: Immigration policy of Donald TrumpFurther information: Trump administration family separation policy

Following two executive orders on January 25, 2017, ICE accelerated its pace of arrests, arresting 41,000 people within the next 100 days.^[83] During the 2017 fiscal year, ICE held a daily average of slightly more than 38,000 people in detention. In President Trump's 2018 budget proposal, the administration proposed spending more on immigration detention beds, expanding capacity to 48,000 people.^[83] In addition to detainees, ICE supervises the status of 2.3 million people, who must regularly check in with the agency.^[84] Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE, immigration police) and Customs and Border Protection (CBP) increased the number of unaccompanied minors detained nearly sixfold, from an average of 2,400 each night in May 2017 to 12,800 each evening in September 2018.^[85][86]

US Inspectors Alarmed Over Conditions at Immigrant Detention Centers (2017)

In the Freezer February 28, 2018

Abusive Conditions for Women and Children in US Immigration Holding Cells

Texas detention camp swells fivefold with migrant children (2018)

The Tornillo camp originally had a capacity to house 400 children temporarily, now it has 2,400 beds and will remain open at least until the end of the year

Please look at the dates. Trump asked them for facility funding 1 month ago. This crisis that Trump started has been going on for 2 years, during GOP complete control. Yes, Trump's crisis has continued to get worse and yes the Dems have to fix the GOP's mess yet again. Fortunately the new Dem Congress is working towards fixing Trump and the GOP's mess as we speak.

Deflecting blame on the fresh Dem House for a Trump Administration bungle that started in 2017 is low IQ bait.

Best analogy, this is like blaming the GOP's Great Recession on Obama in June 2009.

This thread and I love the irony in the Org. poster using a conservative´s exact word.

@zaryia:

I asked you to read it, in your mind that means completely disregard.

So your mad we are detaining more illegals and processing them. But we dont have the resources to process them. So whats your solution, just let them go out in the streets?

We have kids being sent here with no family, we dont know where thier parents are. We dont know if some of these families together are even legit so we have to do dna tests? Just release them in the streets?

What is your solution? It seems to me you want us to just ignore the border and let anyone who wants to cross and stay.

Is it safe to say then Zaryia, what you want is open borders....just say it. You want open borders. You dont care about processing undocumented illegals, you want them to pass back n forth without going through any legal procedure.

You dont care if some are criminals, if you did you would want a legal process. You offer no solutions, only complaints.

Btw that article by the new York times says we will proabably go over 1 million by the end of the year. Thats a little over double of what it shows for 2018 in your little graph there.

You just keep sticking it to the gop Zaryia, not one more dollar eh, them kids dont need beds or proper care, whats important is that we dont fund it and let it get as bad as possible. Then we can say "look how horrible it is" and blame it on the orange man.

Well it's literally his fault, this has been going on for 2 years even before the new fresh Dem Congress. You can say otherwise, but that would be factually wrong.

The GOP is directly to blame for all of this. Now all you can say about Dems is they aren't getting funding through fast enough to fix the GOP's disaster.

Why are you pretending the border crisis is the GOP's fault?

There is also the reality that the dangerous overcrowding at border detention facilities stems from the Trump administration’s own policies to detain everyone who crosses the southern border without authorization “with no exception for asylum seekers or those with minor children.”

@zaryia: they arent getting ANYTHING done, thats the issue. What is thier solution, here you are still complaining... Whats the solution. What should be done. Thats what im asking you.

Before you respond, listen.

What do you think should be done?

What is the solution?

What could be a solution?

Please dont respond complaing about the gop. I'm not talking about the gop.

I want to know what the democrats think is the solution to this immigration crysis.

@zaryia: what do the democrats want to do to solve the immigration crysis.

The wall is immoral

Not one more dollar for concentration camps

So whats the Democrat strategy to solve this issue

That still doesn’t solve the problem, it just blames the GOP and nothing else. Let’s ignore the fact that many of the photos circulating on the internet showing how bad the detention centers are were taken in 2015. At least one blue checkmark on Twitter went as far as to cover up the timestamps so she could claim that they were taken recently, but reverse image searches showed the truth.

How would you fix this? Throw money at the facilities to improve the conditions, or just let everyone go free and hope they show up for their eventual immigration hearings? The poster you quoted asked if you just want open borders, is he accurate or is he mistaken on that particular conclusion? What is your opinion on why migrants coming up from Central and South America seeking asylum walk right past Mexico instead of applying for asylum there and keep going until they reach our border?

@ad1x2: Zaryia needs to just admit to wanting open borders, keeps skirting around it. Wish he would stop wasting my time and just admit that instead of playing the dem vs repub blame game.

I don't want open borders.

I'm just fact checking you guys, this is Trump's/Gop disaster and the Dem's are working on fixing it. The blame is more than clear. Now it's just up to someone to fix it.

Yes, There’s a Crisis on the Border. And It’s Trump’s Fault.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/04/05/border-crisis-donald-trump-226573

@zaryia: lmao ok, yeah you really got it all figured out dontcha!

Yes, citing facts isn't hard. Trump and the GOP are quite literally to blame starting in 2017 with the new policy.

Now we have to discuss who will fix it, hopefully the new Dem Congress fixes it somehow. Dems always cleaning up after the GOP.

@jeezers: you have it backwards. The wall is a waste of money.

The concentration camps for children is ammoral.

Illegal immigration is worse than what it was three years ago.

Thanks Trump!!

they're fighting for CITIZEN fetuses... not ALL fetuses, and certainly not 2 year old fetuses whose criminal parents brought them here.

it's not about life. conservatives love, LOVE to pull the "make responsible decisions" card when it suits them. nothing makes a conservative harder than getting to point out the mistakes of others and by proxy try to draw attention to their perceived superiority. when looked at through this lens, there is not hypocrisy.

make a mistake and get pregnant at 17? "well that's just too fucking bad, dipshit. you should have made better life choices! like me!"

I'll fight for the rights of all babies/children, including those still in their mother's womb.

Ok then.

You sound just like a broken record with your posts.

Q. The migrants need beds and supplies, what should we do?

A. It’s the GOP’s fault, the Democrats are going to fix it!

Q. Migrants continue to try and enter the country by the thousands every month and both politicians and celebrities continue to encourage them by saying all are welcome regardless of legal status. How will we convince them to turn around?

A. It’s the GOP’s fault, the Democrats are going to fix it!

Q. AOC is crying about the so-called concentration camps, but she voted against every single bill that would give them much-needed funding so the children are treated better. Why won’t she vote for it?

A. It’s the GOP’s fault, the Democrats are going to fix it!

Q. Why aren’t the migrants coming from countries south of Mexico applying for asylum in Mexico rather than continuing north until they reach the US border?

A. It’s the GOP’s….well you know the rest.

You ignored my statement about many of the pictures circulating on the internet showing deplorable conditions having a timestamp of 2015, two years before Donald Trump became president. I’m sure that your response will be that it’s Trump’s baby now and he needs to fix it. The problem with that, which you conveniently ignored in order to continue pushing how horrible Trump is as a president is that if President Obama fixed the issue before he left office then President Trump would just need to pick up where Obama left off. For it to get as bad as it is right now after Obama fixed everything when he was in power, it would have to go far beyond simple neglect. It would have needed to take outright malice and sabotage, something that would have immediately been bought to light.

Maybe we can blame the media too, since they are screaming about how horrible conditions are under Trump, but kept quiet about it other than the occasional page 10 story near the obituaries while Obama was president. If they screamed as loud back then than they are now, maybe we wouldn’t have this issue.

@ad1x2: so your answer is, it'd the democrats fault, but Trump will fix it.

And only those already in the womb. So do a 100 IVF and throw in the toilet. That's ok.

Obama did not start the current policy, which is wildly different. This wasn't headlining during Obama because it wasn't even remotely as bad or widespread.

Trump is trying to rewrite the history of his family separation policy before 2020

While it’s true that Obama did, during a 2014 surge in migration, implement wide-scale detention of families, Trump’s administration chose a much harsher path. As part of a broader border crackdown, Trump instituted a “zero tolerance” policy in April 2018 that called for every illegal entry case to be prosecuted. That policy resulted in thousands of children being separated from their parents before Trump walked it back two months later, amid international outcry, with an executive order. (The ACLU estimates over 700 families have been separated since then due to loopholes in a federal ruling that ordered the Trump administration to reunify separated families.)

The difference between family separations during the Obama and Trump presidencies, briefly explained

It is true that migrant and asylum-seeking families were separated while Obama was president, but only in extraordinary circumstances. The Los Angeles Times’s Scott Martelle explains:

During the Obama administration, family separations were rare and predicated upon two conditions: whether border officials felt the parents or guardians posed a threat to the children, or whether the adults, under U.S. immigration law, had to be detained based on prior criminal convictions.

While Obama was undoubtedly tough on immigration — his administration still holds the record for most deportations — border officials used discretion during his presidency to determine which illegal crossing cases to prosecute. On the other hand, in April 2018, the Justice Department under then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions instituted a “zero tolerance” policy that called for every illegal entry case to be prosecuted. This resulted in children being separated from parents — even when the parents had done nothing more than try to cross the border.

Vox’s Dara Lind explained the difference between the Obama and Trump-era policies after zero tolerance was implemented last year:

It’s not that no family was ever separated at the border under the Obama administration. But former Obama administration officials specify that families were separated only in particular circumstances — for instance, if a father was carrying drugs — that went above and beyond a typical case of illegal entry.

We don’t know how often that happened, but we know it was not a widespread or standard practice.

Under the Trump administration, though, it became increasingly common. A test of “zero tolerance” along one sector of the border in summer 2017 led to an unknown number of family separations. Seven hundred families were separated between October 2017 and April 2018.

Trump’s zero-tolerance policy resulted in heart-rendering images of kids being kept in cage-like facilities, and parents being reunited with young children who didn’t seem to recognize them after long separations. By June of last year — after more than 2,300 families had been separated — Trump signed an executive order walking it back.

In short, Trump didn’t end family separations because of humanitarian concerns about an Obama-era policy, as he now wants people to believe. He ended it because of international backlash against an inhumane policy his own administration implemented.

Feel free to tell me what is incorrect in the above fact check.

TRUMP and the GOP caused this mess. You can keep saying they didn't, and you'd be constantly lying. Obama's policy wasn't remotely on this level or quantity. They had to implement a new policy to result in the current disaster.

I'm glad you're starting to realize the reality of this situation. It quite literally is the GOP and Trump's fault. Democrats SHOULD fix it.

Will they fix it? Who knows. They aren't perfect, and cleaning up the GOP's mess isn't always quick/easy.

First of all, I don’t know what you call yourself achieving striking through my posts as well as almost everyone else you are debating, it doesn’t change the fact that I said it. But that can be for another day.

I’m going to link why reading anything that comes from Vox gives me pause when it comes to criticizing the Trump Administration. That doesn’t mean what they are saying is false, but I would be more likely to believe the arguments you are trying to push if they came from CNN or ABC. I‘m not going to mention Fox because I know they are considered as bad as Breitbart on this forum.

For the sake of argument, let’s say that I concede to your view that everything is the GOP’s fault and the crisis can only be fixed by their saviors in the Democratic Party led by AOC. With that out of the way, what is your solution? The whole point about me saying you sound like a broken record is because you aren’t offering solutions, you are just repeating your view that the GOP f’d it up and the Democrats will fix it, which does nothing. Do you want us to fix the facilities? Would you rather we shut them down all together and release all migrants regardless of their legal status to the communities? If we release them, do we give all able-bodied adults temporary work visas so they aren’t on government assistance for the next few years while waiting on their hearings? If so, will we force employers to hire them if they don’t meet all work requirements or don’t speak English and are seeking jobs where English is required?

What about background checks, some of the people crossing the border illegally are from MS-13, and a few are people that were previously deported after serving time for a felony conviction unrelated to their illegal entry itself? Are you for open borders? If the answer is yes to the open borders question, how will you compensate the millions of immigrants that came here legally and paid their dues to get their green cards and citizenship within the requirements of the law? Or are they just shit out of luck like people that paid off their student loans through hard work may be if Sanders or Warren gets elected and they get Congress to pass a bill wiping out all student loan debt? I’m sure that veterans that served and possibly deployed to combat would love seeing that they wasted their time enlisting for the GI Bill, and former students that worked hard for full ride scholarships will feel the same.

Even if you are 100% right and everything going on is all on the GOP while Democrats are 100% innocent, those children aren’t getting better living conditions from you owning one of maybe five right-leaning posters on this forum while you are being cheered on by dozens of left-leaning posters that agree with you and have already decided they will vote for whoever Trump’s opponent is no matter what. Removal through impeachment isn’t very likely before 2021 and even if that happens Vice President Pence moves up, not Nancy Pelosi. So if the conditions those children are in disgust you, that means you need something better than simply talking points to make Trump a one-term president when he still has a year and a half left of being in power (five and a half years if he gets reelected) so you can get the next Democrat to enter the White House to fix it.

There are far more outlets that prove this specific policy and it's extreme differences from Obama's is Trump's doing. Not just Vox. I'm surprised this is even questioned anymore.

Politifact: https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/jun/21/donald-trump/donald-trump-again-falsely-says-obama-had-family-s/

Time: https://time.com/5612868/trump-obama-family-separation/

Factcheck org: https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/04/12/jake-tapper-fact-check-trump-obama-border-family-separations-orig-vstan.cnn

Previous family seperations were extremely limited and rare. They became US policy under Trump, and exponentially grew. This was called the zero tolerance policy. This is all well documented.

I thought this was common knowledge by now.

Well I'm not going to do hypotheticals with a false "sake of arguement" or "even if", this objectively is Trump and his administration's fault. No ifs ands or buts. Historical record. Also I'm not saying Dems are the only ones who can fix this, but they are certainly trying and I'm sure some Republican Congressman/Senators are too.

I'm not a politician, I don't have answers on how to fix it. I'm just telling you a historical timeline of events.

I'm not going to change your mind, I'm just going to tell you your point is, errrm...pointless.

The pro-choice people don't care about kids because once they're born, they're someone else's problem.

They care about fetuses because it's an offense to their morals, and therefore a "greater good" kind of problem that, in their minds, concerns everyone including themselves.

That's why they're all about fetuses then once they're born they are all like "GET A JOB LAZY MOM!"

@zaryia: You don’t have to be a politician to have an opinion on solutions to the problem besides the theory that the side you vote for will be the one to fix it. I may not be a climatologist, but that doesn’t change the fact that I can still have the opinion that people that say climate change is a conspiracy are ignorant at best and morons at worst.

Some people on the extreme left think we should solve the immigration crisis with open borders and mass amnesty. Some people on the extreme right think we should solve the immigration crisis with lethal force at the border (not my view at all except in the case of repealing an invading hostile military force).

It’s possible to come somewhere in-between those two views. In terms of the detention facilities, regardless of who was the original culprit, we can do better.

A bigger hypocrisy is how you can be against abortion because of religious reasons about the sanctity of life, but pro-death penalty. Being against immigrant children is an entirely different issue. You're not executing those children so I don't see how they are the least bit equivalent.

I’m pretty sure it has something to do with due process.

@mrbojangles25: I think you meant to say “pro-life”

Migrant children crisis: Democrats agree $4.5bn aid for migrants at border

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48768448

There. You can stop lying and putting any blame on the Dems. Now watch the GOP (the ones who COMPLETELY own this mess) scuttle this bill to further prove I was right.

@zaryia: im so glad they approved the requested funing PROPOSED BY THE WHITE HOUSE.

You might want to actually read the link.

heres some links , I made sure they are liberal sources for you, enjoy

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/politics/white-house-border-funding.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/white-house-asks-congress-for-45-billion-in-emergency-spending-for-border/2019/05/01/725e2864-6c23-11e9-8f44-e8d8bb1df986_story.html?utm_term=.3f509730c6a5

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-to-seek-38-billion-for-border-control-more-than-previously-signaled/2014/07/08/ac95a56e-06a9-11e4-bbf1-cc51275e7f8f_story.html?utm_term=.33b74517af68

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-administration-requests-4-5-billion-for-additional-border-funding/

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/30/white-house-budget-border-crisis-1293121

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/441589-white-house-requests-extra-45b-from-congress-for-border-security