Anyone else dislike the new DOOM games?

I know i'm in the minority but Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal are nothing but mindless repetative gore-fest with NO story. I just can't get into them. Doom 3 on the other hand was a better game.

DOOM 3 was pretty amazing.

But DOOM 2016 at high difficulty and at high framerates feels like such a true test of skill.

Doom Eternal is far from mindless. its actually thinking man fast paced shooter. far different than 2016.

also Doom 3 was excellent too.

Playing Doom Eternal on Nightmare as we speak. No idea what you're talking about. If gaming was full of these quick-mindless killing games, then i may've agreed with you, but we barely see these kind of games these days

Really liked Doom 2016, and for how little it had of cut scenes it had a good amount of story and lore if you looked for it.

Doom 3 was ok, good perhaps bit that's about it.

@fastnslowww:

Doom 3 was actually a weird entry out of the bunch. It felt almost nothing like an actual Doom game. But in itself, it was a good game. I feel like Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal are more like a return to form.

Doom 3 where lights on guns hadn’t been thought of... still a good game though but different to normal Doom, but I enjoyed it

I wasn't fond of Doom 2016 (doom 4 going forward), it's good combat loop, but I find the actual maze maps n exploring to be the worst part about the game. It's not as good as how it works in Doom 1 n 2, because in those games the combat n exploring work similarly at once, getting in n out of rooms, enemies that chase out of rooms, worrying about positioning is a big part of those games.

Doom 4 doesn't really have that as keys are often in isolated combat arenas like you're playing Bayonetta or Devil May Cry. Which is fine, but the difference is games like DMC are far deeper mechanically and allow you to sauce n be expressive in a doom 4 really isn't for a long haul, and in between getting the upgrades n shit is this mega fucking tedious thing. It doesn't satiate the same itch metroidvanias do for me, because in those games right you'll get an upgrade, and that now changes how you move around the map/allows you to get other upgrades n shit.

More of a defined loop of interconnected features of one big world. So that part of Doom 4 i thought was a drag, been replaying it this year in preparation for Doom 5, and mostly trying to play it to get over the fact that it isn't really like Doom 1 n 2 at all, and I've had more fun. Arcade mode is a fun addition. I don't think the enemies are particularly strong in Doom 4, circle strafing an arena with the SSG gets mad mileage even on nightmare.

The guass cannon n rocket launcher are also mad strong, so when paired with your moving options the enemies can't really attack you in the spaces they need to attack you to keep you honest. Still a fun gmae, lord knows DMC enemies can't do shit to you when you in the air, but again the difference is you get to be more creative in a game like DMC. In Doom the thrills are a bit more one n done territory.

5 however addresses a lot of my complaints about the combat, while still adding more mobility options and mother fucking inertia to the grappling hook. Doom 5 n Ori 2 have more inertia than DMC5, what a timeline.

If you like FPSs, you're not allowed to dislike DOOM.

Yeah I'm the same. I enjoyed Doom 3 better. I don't really care for mindless arena shooters against bots, which is all the new ones seem to be. I mean they are ok, but nothing I'm gonna pay much money for.

I applaud it for mixing up the genre, for it's frantic gameplay and being the evolution that Doom should be. I just don't enjoy these types of games as much as I used to when I was younger. Finely crafted, exciting, and everything they need to be, for someone else. Might try it on sale for short bursts, but they will be short.

I ended up getting Doom Eternal because of Chinese Kung-flu. I somewhat enjoyed Doom2016 though it got boring further in. I was expecting Eternal to fix the repetitive and boring that Doom 2016 had but so far it hasn't and I just can't seem to get into it.

I feel like I'm playing the same game from 2016 again. Right from the get-go the game keeps stopping me every few mins to shove a tutorial message in my face, then takes over for a cut scene before shoving me into another area with a locked door that only opens after killing a few waves of demons and then ...doing it again. You can tell when you walk into a new area what's about to happen. "Here comes another cut scene...", "ugh how many demons will I have to kill in this area..." This is how I feel while playing.

Before the game released I said it looked like an expansion to Doom 2016 and after playing it for an hour or two, I don't think I was far wrong. The game doesn't make me want to keep playing it, its like iv played enough of it with Doom 2016 iv already had my fill. I'll probably give it another try since I paid for it but I'm glad I have a Noita update and HL Alyx to play later.

Imagine Q3A, playing offline against an arena full of bots. Throw in some cut scenes and fancier graphics. Remove health and ammo pickups and let the player to spam E or C to teleport to a bot and get hp and ammo back. There you have it.

quick tips: turn the tutorial mode off. its not hard.

beside Eternal and 2016 are exact different games. thats why some criticize eternal. you are always low on health and ammo plus tons of platforming segments.

Turning off the tutorials will make the game worse. At least the tutorials add some variety to the game.

No other game in existence tests your skills and reflexes like DOOM and Doom Eternal.

Yes, there are plenty of challenging games out there, with inflated difficulty or difficulty based on trial and error.

But the new Doom games test your skill legitimately; if you fail, it's because you failed. In most other games if you fail, it's because the enemy had an unfair advantage, or the game mechanics were not quite polished enough, and yes sometimes you fail but generally not.

I say this because when I fail in other games, I often rage quit; but with Doom, I don't quit because I can only blame myself.

I'm not much of a fan of 90's fast paced maze shooters. I much prefer the dreaded "cinematic" FPS games.

But considering how few AAA games of this type actually release these days, I'm very glad we still have DOOM being DOOM in the year 2020 :)

@pelvist:

The cutscene/story dump gets put to rest quickly. I was also worried about that early on.

And yeah, tutorials can be disabled.

But if mowing down waves of demons isn't your jam, then yeah probably not for you. This game doubles down on that aspect of Doom 4. The whole loop is arena > platforming > arena.

XD

starting is bit slow but once you get dash ability then later grappling. it become just amazing.

this game is much more challenging than 2016 Doom. you lock in arena you become sweating when shooting demons and once you kill them all. you take a long breath. arena this time is bigger with jumping and stuff.

thats badass.

TBH I haven't really played enough to judge them.

From what little was played, one thing I wasn't keen on was enemies lighting up like Christmas trees, it's something Fear 2 done as well, and well I get it's needed to highlight them for glory kills, I think they could have dialed it down a bit.

It seems as well unless it changed things up abit, it could end up getting very repetitive.

But again, barely an hour of game. Ended up mostly playing Doom 64 to be a hipster goober.

Doom Eternal reminds me of Metroid prime, but on steroids. It has the same type of platforming and exploration for upgrades. I also like how you need to use a different gun for each enemy.

For real, bad take.

Doom 2016 I enjoyed for a while bit felt the combat encounters got a bit samey/tedious in the final third.

Eternal is holding my interest better but i'm not yet half way through (on the fifth mission) so we'll see if that same thing happens later on

They aren't for you. I consider them amazing for the very reason you dislike them. Stick to other modern shooters like CoD.

@jg4xchamp:

Mr.BJ is right though. And i say this while taking all other fps games I've played into consideration. Halo, Call of Duty, Half-Life, Duke Nukem, Metroid Prime, Battlefield, Bioshock, Mirrors Edge, Titanfall, Destiny, Far Cry, Border Lands etc...none of those can compare to the level of hardship and joy Doom and Doom Eternal have given me. It's definitely a huge cut above the rest. And it's not afraid to add classic elements on the side.

exactly my dear friend.

Doom and Doom Eternal movement and combat blow any FPS out of water and i played every major FPS game onwards.

An interesting quote from (I think) the Guardian's review was that Doom 2016 was shorter yet overstayed it's welcome, while this one is longer but feels fresh to the end.

I haven't played the new one yet but that sounds promising indeed.

@nepu7supastar7:

For a single player shooter, yeah, maybe. At least in the case of Eternal, Doom 4 was cake.

But within its own genre, multiplayer shooters are a thing, especially arena shooters.

Then you have the games that Eternal really shares its DNA with, Japanese action games like DMC, Ninja Gaiden, to a lesser extent Bayo. All of which require more skill and reflex.

Drifting outside of similar stuff, fighting games demand exponentially more skill and better reflexes, and that's only to be barely competent at them, not talking bout being truly great at them.

Shmups are a thing.

Really there are countless games out there that invalidate this claim: "No other game in existence tests your skills and reflexes like DOOM and Doom Eternal."

IF your criteria is exclusively single player fps? eh sure, and even then probably not. Doom 2 wads exist, Arcade Dimensions for Quake exists. Plenty of genres challenge your skills n reflexes n ability to adapt n think on the fly. A lot of shit, rephrase basically all the shit you people say is cheap, unfair, artificial, etc isn't unfair, or cheap, or any more artificial than any other form of difficulty in the medium.

It's often an excuse for your own play. Additionally while Eteranl is certainly up there with Master Levels now, Doom 4 is the furthest thing from being some test of skill.

I really like the resource management metagame in them. Getting chainsaw or glory kills is much more skill based than hiding behind cover or aimlessly looking for pickups. It's a lot more fine tuned in Eternal and the addition of weak points on the heavies makes it better.

Plutonia is still my favorite Doom game.

lol fair enough. I am sure there are plenty of games harder than Doom.

Have you played Doom though? Where does it fall in the pantheon of difficult games?

I liked Doom 2016 but Doom Eternal is much harder, but I am enjoying it. Enemy weaknesses play a bigger role and many are area and weapon specific. Since ammo capacity is reduced and pick-ups aren't enough they have players juggling cooldown skills like chainsaw for ammo, flame beltch for armor shards, executions for health. It is getting easier bit by bit as I get new weapon and upgrades to weapons and skills and ammo capacity. Overall, I am pleased, makes my state mandated stay at home order more tolerable, and buys me some time before RE3 Remake releases.

Safe to say if you didn't like Doom 2016 you probably won't like this.

Been play the older Doom games in anticipation and they're all a great deal of fun. I don't feel latest games feeling too repetitive, at least no more or less compared to others.

I really like them alot but I do feel they are overrated Gmanlives review of Doom Eternal was ridiculous the game is great don't get me wrong but it's no game changer like the HL series he made it sound like it was revolutionary it's not. I'm still playing it and it's fantastic but still over hyped to ad nauseam.

Disclaimer, as much as I like this game (been on it every spare moment I've had these past few days), I'm not big on single player shooters.

I'd say it's a reasonably difficult game though, one of the more challenging single player games I've played in a while. I've run into plenty of encounters that made me eat shit more than a good few times. Especially some of those "secret" encounters on a timer. And the Master Levels, holy ****.

You're not wrong in saying the game takes a good bit of skill and reflexes. It's fast, it's brutal. It's going to be in the conversation when difficult games are brought up, and rightfully so, it's a bat shit crazy action game.

But I've definitely played games that were more demanding. Not a jab against Eternal at all tho, game is great and the difficulty is more than satisfying.

@mrbojangles25:

Hope I can be even half as savage as this guy at some point.

My movement is on point, and I've had some sick moments, but my weapons switching sucks by comparison and what is consistency lol.

I liked Doom 2016 and look forward to getting Doom Eternal.

I agree with op. I also think doom 3 was the better game.

Comparing Doom2016/Eternal to Doom 3 🤣

What is wrong with people.

@ConanTheStoner:

"Then you have the games that Eternal really shares its DNA with, Japanese action games like DMC, Ninja Gaiden, to a lesser extent Bayo. All of which require more skill and reflex."

Doom shares almost nothing with hack and slash games like DMC and Bayonetta. It's not just quick-thinking that makes up the hack & slash DNA. Those games center on crazy combos, puzzle solving and EVEN MORE platforming. Doom is an arena shooter. Simple as that. And of course I'm talking about single player, I couldn't care less about multiplayer crap.

Playing the new DOOM games at highest difficulty with the volume notched up in the Platinum headphones is very, very, very nice. And very bloody.

So, yeah, the new DOOM is badass.

@jg4xchamp:

"IF your criteria is exclusively single player fps? eh sure, and even then probably not."

- Single player *is* the only way I play fps. Most these days focus less on giving you a worthy campaign and more on mp. We need to bring back more games like Doom.

Beat 4, working on 5. 4 is kind of a joke. This is a solid read on 4's short comings as an action title.

To me it's not always difficulty per say. But if we're talking raw testing of your ability n knowledge Quake's mod Arcane Dimension is fantastic, wad, whatever, same energy. Doom has things like Sunlust n Plutonia. The original Doom n Doom 2. Valient, Sythe are bangers too. Pure platformers are concerned Celeste is a good example of testing reflexes, your finesse of a controller, patience, and mechanical knowledge.

In action games I think kick me me sign God Hand is much better test of challenge than what DMC, Bayonetta, and Ninja Gaiden offer, if only because I think you can cheese the other 3 pretty easily. Tho being creative with the combos is a level of depth you can't really fine in anything else, NG less so, but at least the enemies are merciless.

So like Ninja Gaiden is probably harder than Doom 4........................but probably has the same flaw.

My contention is that it's the only thing that challenges stuff, and really the stuff that is cheaper or fake. Fake difficulty is not a thing, a game is just hard, and barring RNG, most things are plenty consistent about why they are hard. Which is fair and the player needs to adapt. It's a matter of does that difficulty still leave you with meaningful options or does the game become so hard it guts so many of your options (Halo would be an example of that).

Actually no on the underlined. Those games aren't heavily focused on that, the combat is by far the meat of those games, and if anything they're right in line with Eternal in that respect.

And yes, the lockdown arenas, the encounters with enemy variety that play off of each other very well to keep the player on their toes, their rhythms, strengths and weaknesses to specific attack patterns and weapons, all very much in line with the core loop and fundamentals of other action games.

And if you're not essentially comboing in Eternal, idk what you're doing. This isn't some walk and shoot game.

I mean, this is just a single enemy.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1242235603409920012

Now take into a account a full arena where any number of possibilities play out. In a matter of seconds, freeze>flame>spray>grenade a hoard, SSG switch meat hook to an elemental, shoot, air jump, shoot again, dash, shoot again, glory kill, (all in mid air), dash replenished, double dash over to the next group n land with chainsaw/bloodpunch, and keep it moving.

Lack of an actual combo counter doesn't take away from that lol.

Even if only talking single player, you'd still be wrong.

But you cosigned on this:

No other game in existence tests your skills and reflexes like DOOM and Doom Eternal.

So of course I brought up games that exist, multiplayer included.

Tbh, I thought Doom Eternal was pretty good. If anything, I'd like to see them expand further. More new monsters, more elaborate platforming and more complex secrets.

Doom 2016 was good. Doom Eternal is a bunch of gimmicks strung together.

@ConanTheStoner:

"Lack of an actual combo counter doesn't take away from that lol."

- Lack of actual combos takes away from a formula that's meat is in the combat. Yes, Doom uses lock downs, DMC games have lock downs but that's really it. It's not an air dash, it's a dash. Master Chief can do it too in Halo 5.

*Doom encourages you to make use of the environment, like portals and ledges to get the drop on baddies. DMC doesn't.

*Doom litters battlefields with health packs, armor shards, ammo clips and power ups everywhere. DMC doesn't.

The only thing Doom does remotely close to hack & slash games is just the platforming and the lockdowns. Aside from that, you're constantly shooting at demons. Key word: "shooting," not "slashing" with combos.

Neat, so staggering and stunlocking enemies into repeated hits they can't escape, keeping them locked down with a barrage of varied attacks that aren't simply "point and squeeze" is not comboing. Gotcha.

Even though, you know, I posted the most simple vid I could against just one enemy to show you an example.

Funny thing is I'm not even arguing combos as the end all here. I do get the difference.

Cool. Funny, while the game shares similarities with DMC, it most reminds me of Ninja Gaiden. In which using your environment mid battle and getting the drop on enemies from above is definitely a thing.

Crazy.

Interesting. Other action games do this too, but you know what's really cool? These other action games are big on getting replenishments from enemies mid battle. And certain actions/items can affect which replenishments you get.

Huh. Sounds familiar.

Again, this is a non-factor to me, but kinda funny how well you're playing into my argument lol.

Funny how Eternal has melee and those other games have projectiles, but nah, won't be that petty here.

Anyways you're mostly on some surface level BS here.

From the structure of the game, to the loop and fundamentals of the encounters, the DNA is shared. I'm not saying they're exactly the same, but very similar in many ways.

@ConanTheStoner:

You have to reach levels to find the similarities though. Some mechanics might work in a similar fashion but in execution, they're VERY different games.

You can use the dash in the air, which is an air dash. A dash in the air.

Not really, it's in the bread and butter of the game, that's my point. Those are the very reasons why I like this game so much and typically dislike other single player shooters.

You're the one reaching into the details (which ironically support my stance too lol).

Anyways, weird side track, this wasn't even the argument to begin with, was only using those games as an example in the previous conversation. Can take it or leave it.