Namco: Tales have been selling more after every release

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Jag85

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#51  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19574 Posts

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@ Jag85

You can't assiosate corridors with western gaming design. Final Fantasy XIII wasn't westernized.... It just sucked because it sucked. Simple as that.

That's what the FFXIII creator said, that the corridor-style gameplay was inspired by FPS games (presumably the COD school of FPS design). Of course it's not exclusive to COD-style FPS games (even FFX had glimpses of it at certain places, like da_illest101 pointed out), but that's the most popular example of it today.

@texasgoldrush said:

@Jag85 said:

@finalfantasy94 said:

@Jag85 said:

Interesting how "Westernized" JRPG's are doing badly in the West, while "Japanese" JRPG's are doing really well in the West. I think JRPG developers are finally starting to realize that there's no need to "Westernize" their games to be successful in the West.

What westernized jrpgs are there? I know people call 13-2 and LR that but nothing felt westernized about those.

The FFXIII trilogy was an attempt at "Westernizing" JRPG's in some ways, combining Eastern and Western game design elements, but they just ended up feeling like an awkward mix that didn't quite mesh. It did "feel" Japanese in some ways, but some of the game design elements that fans disliked was Western-inspired (like FFXIII's COD-inspired linear corridors).

On the other hand, Demon's Souls "felt" Western in some ways, yet its core game design was very "Japanese", with the old-school dungeon-crawling, hack & slash combat, and hardcore challenging difficulty. It was originally created for a niche Japanese audience, never planned for Western release, until Atlus USA took a chance on it. And despite the "niche" old-school nature, it became an unexpected worldwide success.

That's not Japanese however. Nevermind the Souls and King's Field roots are in Ultima Underworld.

Long time no see, mate...

Anyway, first-person dungeon crawlers date back long before King's Field and Ultima Underworld, to games like Dungeon Master and Megami Tensei back in the 80's, for example. It's not really a "Western" or "Eastern" thing. What made Demon's Souls more "Japanese" is the deep hack & slash combat system, unforgiving hardcore difficulty, and Berserk-inspired designs. It's not too difficult to see why it was originally going to be a Japan-only release, because Sony thought it was too hardcore for Western audiences (until Atlus USA proved them wrong).

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Mr-Kutaragi

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#52  Edited By Mr-Kutaragi
Member since 2013 • 2466 Posts

@Jag85 said:

@finalfantasy94 said:

@Jag85 said:

Interesting how "Westernized" JRPG's are doing badly in the West, while "Japanese" JRPG's are doing really well in the West. I think JRPG developers are finally starting to realize that there's no need to "Westernize" their games to be successful in the West.

What westernized jrpgs are there? I know people call 13-2 and LR that but nothing felt westernized about those.

The FFXIII trilogy was an attempt at "Westernizing" JRPG's in some ways, combining Eastern and Western game design elements, but they just ended up feeling like an awkward mix that didn't quite mesh. It did "feel" Japanese in some ways, but some of the game design elements that fans disliked was Western-inspired (like FFXIII's COD-inspired linear corridors).

On the other hand, Demon's Souls "felt" Western in some ways, yet its core game design was very "Japanese", with the old-school dungeon-crawling, hack & slash combat, and hardcore challenging difficulty. It was originally created for a niche Japanese audience, never planned for Western release, until Atlus USA took a chance on it. And despite the "niche" old-school nature, it became an unexpected worldwide success.

Yes dumb down for western audience. Story without nuance and complications, simple quest and battle system. Cod of rpg, straight forward and simple game.

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texasgoldrush

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#53 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 14914 Posts

@Jag85 said:

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@ Jag85

You can't assiosate corridors with western gaming design. Final Fantasy XIII wasn't westernized.... It just sucked because it sucked. Simple as that.

That's what the FFXIII creator said, that the corridor-style gameplay was inspired by FPS games (presumably the COD school of FPS design). Of course it's not exclusive to COD-style FPS games (even FFX had glimpses of it at certain places, like da_illest101 pointed out), but that's the most popular example of it today.

@texasgoldrush said:

@Jag85 said:

@finalfantasy94 said:

@Jag85 said:

Interesting how "Westernized" JRPG's are doing badly in the West, while "Japanese" JRPG's are doing really well in the West. I think JRPG developers are finally starting to realize that there's no need to "Westernize" their games to be successful in the West.

What westernized jrpgs are there? I know people call 13-2 and LR that but nothing felt westernized about those.

The FFXIII trilogy was an attempt at "Westernizing" JRPG's in some ways, combining Eastern and Western game design elements, but they just ended up feeling like an awkward mix that didn't quite mesh. It did "feel" Japanese in some ways, but some of the game design elements that fans disliked was Western-inspired (like FFXIII's COD-inspired linear corridors).

On the other hand, Demon's Souls "felt" Western in some ways, yet its core game design was very "Japanese", with the old-school dungeon-crawling, hack & slash combat, and hardcore challenging difficulty. It was originally created for a niche Japanese audience, never planned for Western release, until Atlus USA took a chance on it. And despite the "niche" old-school nature, it became an unexpected worldwide success.

That's not Japanese however. Nevermind the Souls and King's Field roots are in Ultima Underworld.

Long time no see, mate...

Anyway, first-person dungeon crawlers date back long before King's Field and Ultima Underworld, to games like Dungeon Master and Megami Tensei back in the 80's, for example. It's not really a "Western" or "Eastern" thing. What made Demon's Souls more "Japanese" is the deep hack & slash combat system, unforgiving hardcore difficulty, and Berserk-inspired designs. It's not too difficult to see why it was originally going to be a Japan-only release, because Sony thought it was too hardcore for Western audiences (until Atlus USA proved them wrong).

Dungeon crawlers did exist before then, Wizardry for example.....but Ultima Underworld was a huge influence for more than just dungeon crawlers, and King's Field basically is heavily influenced by it. And Demon Souls was King Field spiritual successor.

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Lulu_Lulu

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#54 Lulu_Lulu
Member since 2013 • 19564 Posts

@ Jag85

If the Creator said that those specific design decsions were inspired by the west and western type games then he simply doesn't understand the west... Simple as that. Or maybe he does but he knows gamers tiny brains don't so he just uses a generalization to shut people up.

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finalfantasy94

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#55 finalfantasy94
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@Mr-Kutaragi said:

@Jag85 said:

@finalfantasy94 said:

@Jag85 said:

Interesting how "Westernized" JRPG's are doing badly in the West, while "Japanese" JRPG's are doing really well in the West. I think JRPG developers are finally starting to realize that there's no need to "Westernize" their games to be successful in the West.

What westernized jrpgs are there? I know people call 13-2 and LR that but nothing felt westernized about those.

The FFXIII trilogy was an attempt at "Westernizing" JRPG's in some ways, combining Eastern and Western game design elements, but they just ended up feeling like an awkward mix that didn't quite mesh. It did "feel" Japanese in some ways, but some of the game design elements that fans disliked was Western-inspired (like FFXIII's COD-inspired linear corridors).

On the other hand, Demon's Souls "felt" Western in some ways, yet its core game design was very "Japanese", with the old-school dungeon-crawling, hack & slash combat, and hardcore challenging difficulty. It was originally created for a niche Japanese audience, never planned for Western release, until Atlus USA took a chance on it. And despite the "niche" old-school nature, it became an unexpected worldwide success.

Yes dumb down for western audience. Story without nuance and complications, simple quest and battle system. Cod of rpg, straight forward and simple game.

im sorry but FF13 battle system is by far one of the best battle system in the series as far as im concernced.

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Lulu_Lulu

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#56 Lulu_Lulu
Member since 2013 • 19564 Posts

@ finalfantasy94

It is ?

Are you sure ?

Hmmmm.....

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finalfantasy94

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#57 finalfantasy94
Member since 2004 • 27442 Posts

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@ finalfantasy94

It is ?

Are you sure ?

Hmmmm.....

Yup thats my opinion and im sticking to it.

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#58 finalstar2007
Member since 2008 • 27952 Posts

@finalfantasy94 said:

@Mr-Kutaragi said:

@Jag85 said:

@finalfantasy94 said:

@Jag85 said:

Interesting how "Westernized" JRPG's are doing badly in the West, while "Japanese" JRPG's are doing really well in the West. I think JRPG developers are finally starting to realize that there's no need to "Westernize" their games to be successful in the West.

What westernized jrpgs are there? I know people call 13-2 and LR that but nothing felt westernized about those.

The FFXIII trilogy was an attempt at "Westernizing" JRPG's in some ways, combining Eastern and Western game design elements, but they just ended up feeling like an awkward mix that didn't quite mesh. It did "feel" Japanese in some ways, but some of the game design elements that fans disliked was Western-inspired (like FFXIII's COD-inspired linear corridors).

On the other hand, Demon's Souls "felt" Western in some ways, yet its core game design was very "Japanese", with the old-school dungeon-crawling, hack & slash combat, and hardcore challenging difficulty. It was originally created for a niche Japanese audience, never planned for Western release, until Atlus USA took a chance on it. And despite the "niche" old-school nature, it became an unexpected worldwide success.

Yes dumb down for western audience. Story without nuance and complications, simple quest and battle system. Cod of rpg, straight forward and simple game.

im sorry but FF13 battle system is by far one of the best battle system in the series as far as im concernced.

FF13 battle system remind me of FFX-2's battle system i dont know why i guess the constant switch between classes is what makes them so similar

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#59 Zidaneski
Member since 2003 • 9266 Posts

I tried Tales of Xilia, ultra meh. Is there an option to put the game in Japanese voices because the english was horrible.

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Lulu_Lulu

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#60  Edited By Lulu_Lulu
Member since 2013 • 19564 Posts

@ finalfantasy94

Then stop using your oppinion, its gona get you into trouble.... Exercise some logic. :)

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#61 Lulu_Lulu
Member since 2013 • 19564 Posts

and watch the Naruto Anime !

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#62  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19574 Posts

@texasgoldrush said:

@Jag85 said:

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@ Jag85

You can't assiosate corridors with western gaming design. Final Fantasy XIII wasn't westernized.... It just sucked because it sucked. Simple as that.

That's what the FFXIII creator said, that the corridor-style gameplay was inspired by FPS games (presumably the COD school of FPS design). Of course it's not exclusive to COD-style FPS games (even FFX had glimpses of it at certain places, like da_illest101 pointed out), but that's the most popular example of it today.

@texasgoldrush said:

@Jag85 said:

@finalfantasy94 said:

@Jag85 said:

Interesting how "Westernized" JRPG's are doing badly in the West, while "Japanese" JRPG's are doing really well in the West. I think JRPG developers are finally starting to realize that there's no need to "Westernize" their games to be successful in the West.

What westernized jrpgs are there? I know people call 13-2 and LR that but nothing felt westernized about those.

The FFXIII trilogy was an attempt at "Westernizing" JRPG's in some ways, combining Eastern and Western game design elements, but they just ended up feeling like an awkward mix that didn't quite mesh. It did "feel" Japanese in some ways, but some of the game design elements that fans disliked was Western-inspired (like FFXIII's COD-inspired linear corridors).

On the other hand, Demon's Souls "felt" Western in some ways, yet its core game design was very "Japanese", with the old-school dungeon-crawling, hack & slash combat, and hardcore challenging difficulty. It was originally created for a niche Japanese audience, never planned for Western release, until Atlus USA took a chance on it. And despite the "niche" old-school nature, it became an unexpected worldwide success.

That's not Japanese however. Nevermind the Souls and King's Field roots are in Ultima Underworld.

Long time no see, mate...

Anyway, first-person dungeon crawlers date back long before King's Field and Ultima Underworld, to games like Dungeon Master and Megami Tensei back in the 80's, for example. It's not really a "Western" or "Eastern" thing. What made Demon's Souls more "Japanese" is the deep hack & slash combat system, unforgiving hardcore difficulty, and Berserk-inspired designs. It's not too difficult to see why it was originally going to be a Japan-only release, because Sony thought it was too hardcore for Western audiences (until Atlus USA proved them wrong).

Dungeon crawlers did exist before then, Wizardry for example.....but Ultima Underworld was a huge influence for more than just dungeon crawlers, and King's Field basically is heavily influenced by it. And Demon Souls was King Field spiritual successor.

Perhaps, but I think it's worth pointing out that Ultima Underworld was not "the first role-playing game to feature first-person action in a 3D environment" (like Wikipedia claims). Several years before it, Japan had a first-person 3D action RPG called Star Cruiser (one of DMC/Bayonetta creator Hideki Kamiya's favourite games), so it's not like Japanese developers weren't already doing similar things. Nevertheless, it is quite likely that Ultima Underworld had an influence on King's Field, along with earlier first-person RPG's like Megami Tensei, Shining, Star Cruiser, Wizardry, or Dungeon Master.

Either way, I was talking about Demon's Souls, not King's Field. Besides King's Field, other games that the Demon's Soul creators mentioned include Bushido Blade, Wizardry, Diablo, and Monster Hunter. They also cited the manga/anime series Berserk as an influence. My point was that Demon's Souls stuck to what it did best, instead of trying to "mainstream" itself. Because of their insistence on a challenging combat system and hardcore difficulty, Sony refused to publish it in the Western world, until Atlus USA picked it up and proved them wrong. Similarly, more traditional JRPG's like Tales, Ni No Kuni, Bravely Default, etc. have been performing well in the West despite lacking "mainstream" qualities.

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#63 finalstar2007
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@Zidaneski said:

I tried Tales of Xilia, ultra meh. Is there an option to put the game in Japanese voices because the english was horrible.

How about you import the Japanese game and read the subtitles off a website?

The english version only has English voices i believe, they worked hard to localize the game so if all that not enough for you please follow my suggestion above on importing.

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#64 TigerSuperman
Member since 2013 • 4331 Posts

@finalstar2007 said:

WE DID IT GUYS!

Namco Bandai is extremely happy about how strong the Tales of games are preforming in the West saying that they are proud to be able to make more Tales of games and thanking the fans at the same time.

Namco Bandai: “we’ve put a lot of work into making sure that Japan and America get Tales of games right around the same time. With each game we’ve released, sales have increased—so we believe that fans have been going out and talking to other fans. With games coming out on a more periodic basis, I think it conveys [to new fans] that this isn’t just a one-off game, it’s not just another RPG.”

Namco also say that they are testing some new things and new platforms for the future so PS4 Tales in the near future? SURE HOPE SO!

Tales of Xillia 2 and Tales of Hearts R are two upcoming games coming exclusively to PlayStation this year.

Tales of Zesteria is the next flagship title from Namco and is releasing exclusively on PS3 next year worldwide sometime next year 2015.

More of the interview Read more at http://www.siliconera.com/2014/04/23/tales-rpgs-growing-west-says-bandai-namco/#4y08JXP2g2IGUJGe.99

Wake me when they learn why Symphonia sold so well, and why vesperia has a huge cult following. I hope they also realize it's the japanese sales that are increasing.

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#65  Edited By finalstar2007
Member since 2008 • 27952 Posts

@TigerSuperman said:

@finalstar2007 said:

WE DID IT GUYS!

Namco Bandai is extremely happy about how strong the Tales of games are preforming in the West saying that they are proud to be able to make more Tales of games and thanking the fans at the same time.

Namco Bandai: “we’ve put a lot of work into making sure that Japan and America get Tales of games right around the same time. With each game we’ve released, sales have increased—so we believe that fans have been going out and talking to other fans. With games coming out on a more periodic basis, I think it conveys [to new fans] that this isn’t just a one-off game, it’s not just another RPG.”

Namco also say that they are testing some new things and new platforms for the future so PS4 Tales in the near future? SURE HOPE SO!

Tales of Xillia 2 and Tales of Hearts R are two upcoming games coming exclusively to PlayStation this year.

Tales of Zesteria is the next flagship title from Namco and is releasing exclusively on PS3 next year worldwide sometime next year 2015.

More of the interview Read more at http://www.siliconera.com/2014/04/23/tales-rpgs-growing-west-says-bandai-namco/#4y08JXP2g2IGUJGe.99

Wake me when they learn why Symphonia sold so well, and why vesperia has a huge cult following. I hope they also realize it's the japanese sales that are increasing.

Its the sales that are OUTSIDE of Japan that are increasing after every single release ( hence all the Western announcements for the franchise coming outside of Japan Ex: Tales of Graces F, Tales of Xillia, Tales of Symphonia Chronicles, Tales of Xillia 2, Tales of Hearts R, Tales of Zesteria of which ALL are available exclusively on PlayStation ).

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Jag85

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#66 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19574 Posts

@finalstar2007 said:

@Zidaneski said:

I tried Tales of Xilia, ultra meh. Is there an option to put the game in Japanese voices because the english was horrible.

How about you import the Japanese game and read the subtitles off a website?

The english version only has English voices i believe, they worked hard to localize the game so if all that not enough for you please follow my suggestion above on importing.

I don't see what's wrong with having the option to choose between both voice tracks? A Blu-Ray disc has more than enough space.

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#67  Edited By finalstar2007
Member since 2008 • 27952 Posts

@Jag85 said:

@finalstar2007 said:

@Zidaneski said:

I tried Tales of Xilia, ultra meh. Is there an option to put the game in Japanese voices because the english was horrible.

How about you import the Japanese game and read the subtitles off a website?

The english version only has English voices i believe, they worked hard to localize the game so if all that not enough for you please follow my suggestion above on importing.

I don't see what's wrong with having the option to choose between both voice tracks? A Blu-Ray disc has more than enough space.

I've read on a site once that its a bit costly to include both tracks and some companies say that they worked hard on localizing the games and hiring voice actors so including Japanese tracks does not give that hard work justice and i personally agree on that i mean the people worked hard to voice the game and for them to not have any appreciation from gamers in the end is pretty messed up so.

imo i would say either get used to the English voices, play the game on mute and just read the subtitles or import the game and read the subtitles off a website or maybe skip on it all together.

Now there is another idea where the company can make money off Japanese tracks is to provide them via DLC ( maybe $1 or $2 ) for the minority of those who nag about not liking the English voices.

as far as i know only NISA provides both English and Japanese tracks in all their games.

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#68  Edited By texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 14914 Posts

@Jag85 said:

@texasgoldrush said:

@Jag85 said:

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@ Jag85

You can't assiosate corridors with western gaming design. Final Fantasy XIII wasn't westernized.... It just sucked because it sucked. Simple as that.

That's what the FFXIII creator said, that the corridor-style gameplay was inspired by FPS games (presumably the COD school of FPS design). Of course it's not exclusive to COD-style FPS games (even FFX had glimpses of it at certain places, like da_illest101 pointed out), but that's the most popular example of it today.

@texasgoldrush said:

@Jag85 said:

@finalfantasy94 said:

@Jag85 said:

Interesting how "Westernized" JRPG's are doing badly in the West, while "Japanese" JRPG's are doing really well in the West. I think JRPG developers are finally starting to realize that there's no need to "Westernize" their games to be successful in the West.

What westernized jrpgs are there? I know people call 13-2 and LR that but nothing felt westernized about those.

The FFXIII trilogy was an attempt at "Westernizing" JRPG's in some ways, combining Eastern and Western game design elements, but they just ended up feeling like an awkward mix that didn't quite mesh. It did "feel" Japanese in some ways, but some of the game design elements that fans disliked was Western-inspired (like FFXIII's COD-inspired linear corridors).

On the other hand, Demon's Souls "felt" Western in some ways, yet its core game design was very "Japanese", with the old-school dungeon-crawling, hack & slash combat, and hardcore challenging difficulty. It was originally created for a niche Japanese audience, never planned for Western release, until Atlus USA took a chance on it. And despite the "niche" old-school nature, it became an unexpected worldwide success.

That's not Japanese however. Nevermind the Souls and King's Field roots are in Ultima Underworld.

Long time no see, mate...

Anyway, first-person dungeon crawlers date back long before King's Field and Ultima Underworld, to games like Dungeon Master and Megami Tensei back in the 80's, for example. It's not really a "Western" or "Eastern" thing. What made Demon's Souls more "Japanese" is the deep hack & slash combat system, unforgiving hardcore difficulty, and Berserk-inspired designs. It's not too difficult to see why it was originally going to be a Japan-only release, because Sony thought it was too hardcore for Western audiences (until Atlus USA proved them wrong).

Dungeon crawlers did exist before then, Wizardry for example.....but Ultima Underworld was a huge influence for more than just dungeon crawlers, and King's Field basically is heavily influenced by it. And Demon Souls was King Field spiritual successor.

Perhaps, but I think it's worth pointing out that Ultima Underworld was not "the first role-playing game to feature first-person action in a 3D environment" (like Wikipedia claims). Several years before it, Japan had a first-person 3D action RPG called Star Cruiser (one of DMC/Bayonetta creator Hideki Kamiya's favourite games), so it's not like Japanese developers weren't already doing similar things. Nevertheless, it is quite likely that Ultima Underworld had an influence on King's Field, along with earlier first-person RPG's like Megami Tensei, Shining, Star Cruiser, Wizardry, or Dungeon Master.

Either way, I was talking about Demon's Souls, not King's Field. Besides King's Field, other games that the Demon's Soul creators mentioned include Bushido Blade, Wizardry, Diablo, and Monster Hunter. They also cited the manga/anime series Berserk as an influence. My point was that Demon's Souls stuck to what it did best, instead of trying to "mainstream" itself. Because of their insistence on a challenging combat system and hardcore difficulty, Sony refused to publish it in the Western world, until Atlus USA picked it up and proved them wrong. Similarly, more traditional JRPG's like Tales, Ni No Kuni, Bravely Default, etc. have been performing well in the West despite lacking "mainstream" qualities.

But, Star Cruiser relied on polygons, like many games before it. Ultima Underworld didn't. they used more detailed sprites and it revolutionized the genre. Ultima Underworld is a common ancestor to most3d RPG games, including Elder Scrolls as well as id Software shooters.

While Demon Souls was influenced by other games, it is the spiritual successor to King's Field.

And really, the problem with Japanese companies is not that they are trying to appeal to the west or mainstreaming their games, its that they do not know how to do it. FFXIII shows this...it tries to have Call of Duty pacing, then tries to be Mass Effect, then tries for an open world without knowing why the design works. And those games you listed, while they do perm well in the West, they are blown away by WRPG competitors.

Final fantasy should go more Western, both in its gameplay and it storytelling, but that doesn't mean it has to be dumbed down.

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Lulu_Lulu

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#69 Lulu_Lulu
Member since 2013 • 19564 Posts

@ texasgoldrush

Did you here the news about Final Fantasy XV's all new features ?

The Ability to move and attack feely in combat... Kinda like an Action game. LOL ! I've allways critised Japanese games who have characters that don't move. And I'm not just talking about JRPGs... I'm talking about games like Street Fighter where your only two options when somebody throws a fireball at you are 1) Block 2) Jump Over It. I mean... Where the option to you know.... Side step the freaking thing. And the games that do have Side Stepping... Tekken and Dead or Alive, they don't have fireballs.

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#70 Zidaneski
Member since 2003 • 9266 Posts

@finalstar2007 said:

@Zidaneski said:

I tried Tales of Xilia, ultra meh. Is there an option to put the game in Japanese voices because the english was horrible.

How about you import the Japanese game and read the subtitles off a website?

The english version only has English voices i believe, they worked hard to localize the game so if all that not enough for you please follow my suggestion above on importing.

I would import if I felt the game itself was good...,anyway I was just wondering if there was an option because it may have allowed myself to bear through the actual game.

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#71  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19574 Posts
@finalstar2007 said:

I've read on a site once that its a bit costly to include both tracks and some companies say that they worked hard on localizing the games and hiring voice actors so including Japanese tracks does not give that hard work justice and i personally agree on that i mean the people worked hard to voice the game and for them to not have any appreciation from gamers in the end is pretty messed up so.

imo i would say either get used to the English voices, play the game on mute and just read the subtitles or import the game and read the subtitles off a website or maybe skip on it all together.

Now there is another idea where the company can make money off Japanese tracks is to provide them via DLC ( maybe $1 or $2 ) for the minority of those who nag about not liking the English voices.

as far as i know only NISA provides both English and Japanese tracks in all their games.

As far as I know, a majority of gamers usually go with the dub anyway, even when there is a voice option, so it's not like the localization team's efforts would be ignored if they decided to include the original voice track.

There's also the "undub" modding option, although you'd need a modded console... which usually means losing access to online gaming.

The DLC idea sounds pretty good. It could help a publisher make some extra cash.

@texasgoldrush said:
@Jag85 said:

Perhaps, but I think it's worth pointing out that Ultima Underworld was not "the first role-playing game to feature first-person action in a 3D environment" (like Wikipedia claims). Several years before it, Japan had a first-person 3D action RPG called Star Cruiser (one of DMC/Bayonetta creator Hideki Kamiya's favourite games), so it's not like Japanese developers weren't already doing similar things. Nevertheless, it is quite likely that Ultima Underworld had an influence on King's Field, along with earlier first-person RPG's like Megami Tensei, Shining, Star Cruiser, Wizardry, or Dungeon Master.

Either way, I was talking about Demon's Souls, not King's Field. Besides King's Field, other games that the Demon's Soul creators mentioned include Bushido Blade, Wizardry, Diablo, and Monster Hunter. They also cited the manga/anime series Berserk as an influence. My point was that Demon's Souls stuck to what it did best, instead of trying to "mainstream" itself. Because of their insistence on a challenging combat system and hardcore difficulty, Sony refused to publish it in the Western world, until Atlus USA picked it up and proved them wrong. Similarly, more traditional JRPG's like Tales, Ni No Kuni, Bravely Default, etc. have been performing well in the West despite lacking "mainstream" qualities.

But, Star Cruiser relied on polygons, like many games before it. Ultima Underworld didn't. they used more detailed sprites and it revolutionized the genre. Ultima Underworld is a common ancestor to most3d RPG games, including Elder Scrolls as well as id Software shooters.

While Demon Souls was influenced by other games, it is the spiritual successor to King's Field.

And really, the problem with Japanese companies is not that they are trying to appeal to the west or mainstreaming their games, its that they do not know how to do it. FFXIII shows this...it tries to have Call of Duty pacing, then tries to be Mass Effect, then tries for an open world without knowing why the design works. And those games you listed, while they do perm well in the West, they are blown away by WRPG competitors.

Final fantasy should go more Western, both in its gameplay and it storytelling, but that doesn't mean it has to be dumbed down.

You mean Ultima Underworld's ray-casting engine? While it was indeed influential (influencing the likes of Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, and Elder Scrolls), King's Field was using 3D polygons, not ray-casting.

As for Japanese companies trying to Westernize, like you said the problem is that they're struggling to understand what makes Western game design work. Square Enix have been trying to borrow superficial elements of Western game design, combining it with Japanese game design, and the end-result just didn't work out. If they don't "get" Western game design, then why not just stick to what they do best?

By the way, I highly doubt the likes of Tales, Ni No Kuni or Bravely Default are even trying to compete with WRPG's, so I don't see the point in comparing them.

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@ texasgoldrush

Did you here the news about Final Fantasy XV's all new features ?

The Ability to move and attack feely in combat... Kinda like an Action game. LOL ! I've allways critised Japanese games who have characters that don't move. And I'm not just talking about JRPGs... I'm talking about games like Street Fighter where your only two options when somebody throws a fireball at you are 1) Block 2) Jump Over It. I mean... Where the option to you know.... Side step the freaking thing. And the games that do have Side Stepping... Tekken and Dead or Alive, they don't have fireballs.

Actually, Final Fantasy XV is more like Kingdom Hearts... since it's from the same team.

Street Fighter isn't as simple as you're making it out to be. If there's a fireball coming towards you, there are other options to consider, like for example: 1) Block. 2) Jump over it. 3) Crouch or slide below it. 4) Hit back with a fireball. 5) If close enough, close-range attack. 6) If fireball coming from air, run forwards or attack from below. 7) parry (SF3) or focus (SF4). 8) super combo or ultra combo. And so on.

There are quite a few fighting games with both side-stepping and fireballs, like Fatal Fury and Toshinden, for example. Also, some Tekken and Soul Calibur characters have fireball-like attacks.

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Lulu_Lulu

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#72 Lulu_Lulu
Member since 2013 • 19564 Posts

@ Jag85

Uh Dude those are Contextual..... The Hadukens are mid height you con't crouch underneath them, theres actually very few Characters who fire off projectiles at high heights only, Guile and Rose. Not every character has the ability to throw projectiles.... You also might find yourself with empty super and ultra guages.

The Guarenteed solutions are Blocking or leaping out the way.

I remember Devil Jin from Tekken could shoot lasers from his eyeballs and that big machine had lasers and rockets. But tekken is a terrible game.

I've been meaning to get Soul Calibur though.... I got side tracked by Naruto.