Actually, Pitcairn GPU has 228 mm2, without GCN 1.1 changes, hence it's slightly larger than 228 and the use of ~ symbol which stands for "approximately equal" in Algebra symbols.
Sony has been consistent with GPU chip area range since PS3.
212mm2 is from Techpowerup's estimate. I use ~ symbol "approximately equal" in Algebra symbols.
Well things are certainly looking good for them at the moment. They have built a very nice console by the looks of things. Powerful, dev friendly, plenty of potential for games to grow into it as time goes on. strong BC, strong platform in general.
The 2 biggest issues for me are the custom SSD (vita memory card all over again....it's a sting and seems completely unnecessary) and its a bit....well.....boring. its an xbox 4.0. the lack of even adding flappy paddle buttons to the controller as standard is disappointing. but then the PS4 was basically just a PS...well...4.0 and that went down very well so most will probably be very happy with that.
sony have also fuzzed the PS5 talk a bit. It wasn't that effective at building hype. now is the time to get bad news out of the way though.
but MS can't rest. the talk can change very very quickly. if Sony undercut them enough and/or if they have a PS5 exclusive that clearly demonstrates the benefits of the new console over current gen systems AND it gets people excited then MS could find themselves on the back foot again. MSs comments (is it a commitment?) to no exclusives for the XsX for a couple of years could hurt them.
at the end of the day software sells hardware, not specs and (as this gen has demonstrated) not services. the industry contains a litany of examples where less powerful hardware has outsold everything due to games. it has basically no examples where a system won because of it's hardware alone.
I agree that Xbox has to match the price of the PS5. It should not be greater than the PS5 otherwise they would lose all of the positive momentum gained. They should also match the PS5 price on first reveal, not on a price adjustment after being more expensive than the PS5.
With that said, I hope Xbox focus on game diversity. I don't want them to become like Sony's first party games which are just one note at the moment. Fortunately, it looks like they are catering for gamers across the board which is going to be a hit for some and a miss for others depending on the game. Just don't give me just third person shooters.
Lastly, its good to hear that they are planning on pacing the release of games. This is key for subscription services like Gamepass and for their platform in general. Gamers like and want something to look forward to on a consistent basis.
As much as I love single player games I do want games like warhawk or motorstorm. yes i want my god of war 2 and ghost and horizon last of us 2 but I want a little more. I mean we do have dreams and alot of jrp games. just the big ones you hear about are all the same. its great sony has new ips to make sequals.
"You're quick to slam MS games, so tell me what Sony games do you think are great???"
- I wasn't slamming MS in general. I was just saying that they've let me down too many times this gen that I've pretty much lost faith in them. I've got a very diverse pallet for games so I need more than just a racing game to keep me happy. On Sony's side, I loved pretty much everything they've been releasing. God of War, Spiderman, Horizon Zero Dawn, Persona 5, Last of Us, Uncharted and even Days Gone was still pretty good.
Sony has more focus on single player games and that's what I mostly play. I hate online mp.
You can't even compare the I/O implementations of the 2 systems with one another because they are designed completely different.
I'll break down a few things for you here..................................
PS5 has a 12 channel memory interface with 6 levels of priority
XSX has a 3 channel interface with 2 levels of priority
PS4 has all 16GB of ram available for full system usage
XSX has a split memory setup with 10GB of high speed ram for games and 6GB of slower speed ram split between OS and 3D Sound which will further increase bottlenecks.
PS5 also has dedicated hardware-based decompression to reduce CPU overhead.
Mark Cerny has created a next gen system architecture that crushes all conventional bottlenecks associated with that of current gen hardware.
MS has created a very powerful high end PC like system that still revolves around current generation hardware design.
Just a few confirmed features of PS5 that Series X CAN NOT DO.
-Boots in a second
-No load screens
-Ultra high-speed streaming
-De-duplicate game data
-No long patch installs
Cerny also confirms the PlayStation 5's SSD improves how patches are installed on the storage. The system no longer needs to create a new file every time a patch is installed. This was previously necessary because the patch would add new seeks, and thus compound the data usage even further.
But as we said above, there's no seeks on the SSD.
Modern games mitigate read speed limitations by segregating pieces of a game into data chunks that use tons of duplicated assets and lead to big file sizes. Now with the 5GB/sec throughput for data processing, developers don't have to worry about replicating assets.
Cerny designed new software systems on an architectural level which required him to reconfigure the base systems that communicate with game code.
Further Explained...
The SoC also has a DMA (direct memory access) controller that allows devs to designate where data goes to the SSD. It's a means of further reducing data-streaming bottlenecks.
The I/O complex further houses two co-processors that help direct that data traffic. One co-processor is focused on SSD input-output that's specifically designed to bypass file read bottlenecks. The other handles memory mapping. The SRAM, or static RAM, which grants faster access to cached memory.
Finally there's a block dedicated to coherency engines which work directly with the GPU to optimize caching. The engines communicate with the GPU, which "scrubbers" that clean up cached data on the GPU itself to improve efficiency and ensure the cache isn't filled with redundant data.
In closing, these systems were in no why designed the same way.
Comparing these systems as if all components are the same except for the GPU and CPU will get you no where in real world results and actual performance between the 2 systems.
@ronvalencia: true but they didn't win because of that on its own.
a combination of having an edge in power, the complete deck of games (full 3rd party support and their own exclusives) and being cheaper at launch, combined with a very clear marketing campaign and MS and nintendo crapping the bed at their launches basically give sony the win.
if the PS4 was more expensive or MS/nintendo didnt make critical mistakes....who knows.
XSX's better multi-plats have restored Xbox 360 like position for MS.
That will change nothing the xbox one X already did that.
But the series X is not a 360 or close.
It doesn't have exclusives that you can find only there.
It doesn't have 1 year head start advantage.
It will not be $100 to $200 cheaper than then PS5.
So it hasn't restore 360 like status per say unless you are only talking about multiplatforms superiority,outside of that it will be nothing like the 360.
What do you expect Phil Spencer to say? "Boy, Sony really ate our lunch with their PS5 reveal. We have no answer. We lost the next gen console war before it even began."?
Right. Of course he's not going to say anything other than how excited and confident he is about the next Xbauks.
What do you expect Phil Spencer to say? "Boy, Sony really ate our lunch with their PS5 reveal. We have no answer. We lost the next gen console war before it even began."?
Right. Of course he's not going to say anything other than how excited and confident he is about the next Xbauks.
Now that you mention it, I've lost count of how many "Best xbox lineup in history" quotes I've heard from Phil Spencer after going on to offer the weakest libraries and worst games in Xbox One's lifetime.
They just need to stop focusing solely on Gears and Halo. They are tired franchises that could be forgotten about for a while, or need mega refreshes. Forza is okay, because it's actually good.
Hellblade 2 is a good start, as long as it doesn't have shallow combat and tediously boring puzzles.
"You're quick to slam MS games, so tell me what Sony games do you think are great???"
- I wasn't slamming MS in general. I was just saying that they've let me down too many times this gen that I've pretty much lost faith in them. I've got a very diverse pallet for games so I need more than just a racing game to keep me happy. On Sony's side, I loved pretty much everything they've been releasing. God of War, Spiderman, Horizon Zero Dawn, Persona 5, Last of Us, Uncharted and even Days Gone was still pretty good.
Sony has more focus on single player games and that's what I mostly play. I hate online mp.
We're talking about first party, so no need to bring third party into it like P5.
You say you have a "divers pallet" and go on to mention ALL third person action/adventure games LOL, you just killed your own argument.
Again you say you have a "diverse pallet" and yet don't like MP only SP, again killing your own argument.
So we've established you need more than a racing game, you need several SP action/adventure third person games, the exact opposite of diverse.
Like i said why don't you people wait and see what MS announce for next gen before you judge them, and also wait and see what games Sony announce before you praise them.
He needs to make sure that Xbox Series X gets a decent exclusive games lineup. Outside of Hellblade 2 there isn't much I'm seeing that can go toe to toe with whatever Sony can produce.
What line up of games has MS showcased for the SeX???
Sales & scores mean nothing to me, just because they mean the world to you, don't project your shit onto me.
Hellblade 2 (aka the game that you people downplayed when it was on sony side)
Halo infinite which you people claim was created with the series X in mind.lol
Yeah sales and score DO matter to you which is why you held for dear life to Forza which is basically the only decent game that hasn't gone into the trash this gen for MS.
The fact that you downplay them in nothing change that,we know how things work here,just like you claim you don't care about power,but on all thread you are bringing the graphics gap between both machines so yeah you CARE..😂
When talking games scores matter and they are what make Forza what it is,if by any chance Forza would have score 60 over the years you would not be even talking about it or hyping it.
@i_p_daily said:
Oh I get it, but I don't play on PC, so as long as I have access to these games i'm happy, when/if that changes you will hear me that's for sure.
Also tormy you're the one who cares about exclusives, do you remember the thread where PS NOW was announced for PC, and you lost your shit over it.
Your excuses where that they were still exclusives because PC gamers where playing from PS4 servers and the like LOL. I even remember a mod coming into the thread stating that if a game is playable on more than one platform its not exclusive, and you continued to ignore the mod and rage hard.
Its you who doesn't get it tormy. If you keep this crying up i'm going to ask Kleenex if they will release a PS5 edition tissue box with 9.2 tissues in it LMFAO.
No one loss it,you can own xbox games on PC they are yours,if PS Now shoot down next month you have no PS game on PC,unless the game is release properly for windows is not a multiplatform that was my point.
But have a nice time waiting for those games to hit PC,i know xbox games are day 1 on PC and with free online play by the way.
See you care about power,just like you care about scores and sales..lol
Next time you quote me, quote only me so I don't have to delete all the other bullshit like how that IGN shit won't delete, otherwise i'm not going to respond to your dumbarse.
Yes you argued that because it was on PS NOW and was using a PS4, and therefor it was still exclusive to the PS4, and a mod cam in and said it was no longer an exclusive, you know it and more importantly I know it.
As for going into the trash, well by your own god & saviour Metashitic Halo & Gears still rate highly, so hardly trash, I love using people's logic against them.
I don't care about power, I don't care about scores, and I sure as shit don't care about sales. All that shit is all YOU.
I will however use them against people (like yourself) who do, and are too stupid to know that I am, but, but you do care, you make this too easy tormy LMFAO.
@tormentos: You sure are upset about having inferior hardware. I’ve never seen someone so desperate to damage control as much as you and Box.
Tell me more about how the PS5 was gonna be more powerful. Afterglow, you made many post claiming it. What happened? Now of course, power doesn’t matter. Probably because the PS5 is weak lol.
"You say you have a "divers pallet" and go on to mention ALL third person action/adventure games LOL, you just killed your own argument."
- Yeah, I don't need to hear that from the likes of you. lolz You lost that argument the moment you admitted that you can't even appreciate a game like Halo, let alone the Sony line-up. That's as narrow-minded as it gets! I love sp but that's not limited to 3rd person action. And no, Persona 5 IS still an exclusive. The Switch only has spinoffs.
@tormentos: You sure are upset about having inferior hardware. I’ve never seen someone so desperate to damage control as much as you and Box.
Tell me more about how the PS5 was gonna be more powerful. Afterglow, you made many post claiming it. What happened? Now of course, power doesn’t matter. Probably because the PS5 is weak lol.
Games will look better on the PS5.....due to the simplistic and smarter artecture design and overall dev friendly hardware, devs will get more out of the PS5 over the XSX. PS5 has advantages...don't overlook them. Hell the Xbox 360 had a better GPU than the PS3....but Killzone 2 looked far better than anything the 360 could come up with. FACT!
Games will look better on the PS5.....due to the simplistic artecture design and overall dev friendly hardware, devs will get more out of the PS5 over the XSX. PS5 has advantages...don't overlook them. Hell the Xbox 360 had a better GPU than the PS3....but Killzone 2 looked far better than anything the 360 could come up with. FACT!
Can you post anything that ratifies your statement?
That was MS place the PS3 beat the 360 at the end..lol
But is nice you care about consoles so what xbox would you be getting the Series X or the xbox one S.
@BlackShirt20 said:
@tormentos: You sure are upset about having inferior hardware. I’ve never seen someone so desperate to damage control as much as you and Box.
Tell me more about how the PS5 was gonna be more powerful. Afterglow, you made many post claiming it. What happened? Now of course, power doesn’t matter. Probably because the PS5 is weak lol.
This videos and interviews are for the most part ... incredibly pointles ... i mean, what he is supposed to say? "The PS5 is going to kick our butts and now i realize we made dumb choice after dumb choice ?"
Of course he (and every executive for that matter) is going to say that he is very proud of their product, and how the team truly pull it off, etc, etc.
All this talk will not matter until we finally see the end results from both machines.
XSX's better multi-plats have restored Xbox 360 like position for MS.
That will change nothing the xbox one X already did that.
But the series X is not a 360 or close.
It doesn't have exclusives that you can find only there.
It doesn't have 1 year head start advantage.
It will not be $100 to $200 cheaper than then PS5.
So it hasn't restore 360 like status per say unless you are only talking about multiplatforms superiority,outside of that it will be nothing like the 360.
1. In general, Xbox 360 has better multi-plats when compared to PS3.
2. Xbox hardware is for markets with significant game console market share. MS sells a variety of computing hardware SKUs with different market segment targets.
Xbox and Surface SKUs are Microsoft managed devices while 3rd party Windows PCs are mostly end-user managed devices.
Microsoft's OEM driver updates are superior to retail HP OEM driver updates.
From the retail side, HP mobile devices have inferior OEM driver support when compared to MS. Dell's G series laptop driver updates seem okay.
I'm still waiting for HP OEM driver updates for my Ryzen mobile 2-in-1 tablet/laptop. I self maintain my Ryzen mobile 2-in-1 laptop/tablet with driver updates from the original IP holders which I don't do for my MS Surface Pro 5 (2-in-1) laptop/tablet.
I hate HP retail OEM support! My HP AMD mobile driver is stuck in Jun 2018 and it's broken with BSOD Chrome. A normal user would have thrown AMD laptops.
Dell and MS are on my next 2-in-1 tablet/laptop purchase listing. HP is blacklisted again.
I do recommend game consoles for "normal" users.
Corporate laptops for normal users are maintained by corporate IT. Many normal users don't give a damn about IT issues or workarounds.
3. XSX and PC shares "DirectX12 Ultimate" API, hence there are game exclusives for Microsoft platforms.
You can't even compare the I/O implementations of the 2 systems with one another because they are designed completely different.
I'll break down a few things for you here..................................
PS5 has a 12 channel memory interface with 6 levels of priority
XSX has a 3 channel interface with 2 levels of priority
PS4 has all 16GB of ram available for full system usage
XSX has a split memory setup with 10GB of high speed ram for games and 6GB of slower speed ram split between OS and 3D Sound which will further increase bottlenecks.
Scenario 1
For XSX GPU memory bandwidth
1st slice, 28 GB/s x 6 = 168 GB/s potential
2nd slice, 28 GB/s x 6 = 168 GB/s potential
3rd slice, 56 GB/s x 4 = 224 GB/s potential
IF CPU consumes 50 GB/s from 1st slice i.e. 168 - 50 = 118 then the total GPU bandwdith is 510 GB/s
----
For PS5 GPU memory bandwidth
448 - 50 = 398 GB/s
-----
XSX GPU has 28% memory bandwidth advantage.
PS5 GPU takes slightly more than half a penalty hit (ie. 4.5%) like RX 5600 OC 36 CU (336GB/s) vs RX 5700 36 CU (448 GB/s)= 8% performance hit.
XSX vs PS5 GPU performance gap is about 23% to 24.5%
Not factoring TFLOPS scaling issues with gimp GPU memory bandwidth.
@tormentos: You sure are upset about having inferior hardware. I’ve never seen someone so desperate to damage control as much as you and Box.
Tell me more about how the PS5 was gonna be more powerful. Afterglow, you made many post claiming it. What happened? Now of course, power doesn’t matter. Probably because the PS5 is weak lol.
Games will look better on the PS5.....due to the simplistic and smarter artecture design and overall dev friendly hardware, devs will get more out of the PS5 over the XSX. PS5 has advantages...don't overlook them. Hell the Xbox 360 had a better GPU than the PS3....but Killzone 2 looked far better than anything the 360 could come up with. FACT!
What's special about Killzone 2's near monochrome graphics?
@fastnslowww: Nonsense. It was announced on Sonys blog, which is specifically aimed at fans. Cerny spoke directly to "fans" about their excitement and spoke about how he might ask for "photos of your ears".
Games will look better on the PS5.....due to the simplistic artecture design and overall dev friendly hardware, devs will get more out of the PS5 over the XSX. PS5 has advantages...don't overlook them. Hell the Xbox 360 had a better GPU than the PS3....but Killzone 2 looked far better than anything the 360 could come up with. FACT!
Can you post anything that ratifies your statement?
Anything? Sure...
Here's how 1st half 2019 games looked between Sony and MS
(Worlds more powerful console) 6 Tflop Xbox one X
vs
4.2 Tflop PS4 Pro
🤷♂️ There you go
Track record says Sony devs do more with less 4.2 >>> 6
Lol, looks like you rekt him (which isn't hard, to be fair).
I wouldn't waste my time with him anyway... you can only imagine how him and his fellow bovines are feeling after the PS5 reveal. They're coming to terms with the fact that they'll have an inferior console all gen. LOL.
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