@zaryia: Sony will probably continue to win best graphic awards every year.
PC literally won almost every year this gen at DF by those standards. You understand if it's a multiplat wins at DF that's literally a win for PC for that given year, correct? Heck PC got 2 wins in 2019!
PS4 has 1 definitive win out of 8 years, Horizon, and that is even going to PC. I can find no other PS4 quotes of games stating this other than HZD by DF - and we all know that won't count soon as it will be better on PC.
On top of that, and more importantly, of the top best looking 10, 20, 50, 100 video games this gen nearly all PC games, with 4 or 5 PS4 games.
P.S. Almost every game on PS4 runs and looks substantially better on PC! Fake graphics enthusiasts lol!
A PS4 exclusive has won it almost every year. Untill recently they did 3 winners and a PS4 exclusive has won at least one of the three those years as well. The PC has to wait a year for the leftovers! And going by overall awards PS4 exclusives clean house in this category. It's not even debateable.
Doesn't it suck to be a graphics enthusiast and you still don't get the best looking games? Maybe Sony will throw you some exclusives 3 years later and you will have something to celebrate. Or maybe Star Citizen will win something when it releases in 2040.
A PS4 exclusive has won it almost every year. Untill recently they did 3 winners and a PS4 exclusive has won at least one of the three those years as well. The PC has to wait a year for the leftovers!
Doesn't it suck to be a graphics enthusiast and you still don't get the best looking games?
FALSE
1. PC has the most wins for the last 8 years at Digital Foundry it is in most of their videos at the end. The only game that they say that won for PS4 is HZD. I can find no quotes saying it for any other game.
2. Over 90% of games on PS4 look and run substantially better on PC. Any graphics enthusiast who only plays PS4 is fake as shit. Play your two or three 5-10th place gfx movie games and then go to PC for the other 99% of the Gen.
3. Doesn't it suck to be a graphics enthusiast and miss out on the top 3 best looking games, most of the top 10, most of the top 20, and most of the top 50? Doesn't it suck to play the worst or worse version of nearly every major release each year?
@Pedro said:
Now we after fighting over arbitrary based graphic awards? Nioce. Let the nonsense flow.
Agreed on this, so it's better to basically look at which system has more gfx king contenders over 8 years rather than a 2 or 3 wins at site XYZ. That's an easy win for PC. Basically every AAA on Ultra.
@zaryia: You're going to need to link the past 8 years of best graphic awards to verify that claim.
Otherwise that's a lie.
Hell PS exclusives make up nearly half the top 20 stop with the lies. Minor improvements in multiplats and not a single exclusive in the top 50. Now no why i quit PC gaming. Shitty builder sims just didn't cut it anymore.
@zaryia: Your going to need to link the past 8 years of best graphic awards to verify that claim.
Otherwise that's a lie.
I watched or read each of their videos/articles, and it was not mentioned for anything other than HZD (1 year) which will be best on PC (glad I didn't buy a $400 door stop to play 1 game).
But you made the claim, you have to link it directly:
@zaryia said:
@r-gamer said:
@zaryia: Sony will probably continue to win best graphic awards every year.
Timestamp shows your post was first. I already know that's wrong, PC games look better and there's dozens more of gfx king contenders on PC.
You know this, surely you have a gaming rig and 144-240hz monitor. Surely you have experienced real gfx.
@Pedro: When we argue about specs it's mainly because we want the best graphics. PC gamers always flap their mouth about this but overall their best looking games are usually minor improvements in multiplats with not a single exclusive title that would crack the top 50.
@Pedro: When we argue about specs it's mainly because we want the best graphics. PC gamers always flap their mouth about this but overall their best looking games are usually minor improvements in multiplats with not a single exclusive title that would crack the top 50.
That "minor" (DF disagrees) improvement is enough for a majority of AAA releases on Ultra to pile up and make PC contain a majority of the best looking titles of this gen. It doesn't matter that they aren't exclusive, they look great and only look that way on PC.
The only person who would disagree is someone who hasn't actually experienced them.
Hell PS exclusives make up nearly half the top 20 stop with the lies. Minor improvements in multiplats and not a single exclusive in the top 50. Now no why i quit PC gaming. Shitty builder sims just didn't cut it anymore.
1. PC games make up most of the top 20 best looking games. Nearly all of the top 50 and 100. Basically most multiplts on Ultra.
Any GFX Enthusiast knows PC is for gfx. Not consoles - that's dumb. PC is GFX KING. How is this a debate....that's like saying the Sky isn't blue. Who plays most major releases on consoles that is a gfx enthusiast? Fake as hell or poor.
2. Who care if they are exclusive or multiplat, if it's gfx king contender it's a graphics king contender. And most of them are on PC.
3. Minor differences? Digital Foundry, and my eyes, disagree.
4. Now I know why I quot console games. Low gfx, low fps, long load times, bad multiplayer, no competitive gaming, and a fraction of the aaa/aa titles didn't cut it.
I need the best visuals (this includes fps/hz), I need the most high scoring games, I need the best onilne.
I have experienced a good portion of them. I can count the games on one hand that have major visual advantages over their console counterparts.
No you haven't. Show me your Metro on Ultra and it has to be running on a display with gsync/freesync.
It's not even funny, the top ULTRA PC games decimate your 2-3 movie games. That's dozens of titles. I'm glad Sony gives you 2-3 gfx king contenders, I'll take my 50+.
@r-gamer said:
Sony will probably continue to win best graphic awards every year.
Unknown, but would it be really be a "farfetched" assumption to say that the ps5 exclusive line-up would trump the sex exclusive line-up at the end of that respected generation?
Given the "proof" from past generations.
**EDIT**
I just read my post, smh what I "meant" to say was name a generation where the Xbox exclusives beat out the ps exclusives. My bad.
Unknown, but would it be really be a "farfetched" assumption to say that the ps5 exclusive line-up would trump the sex exclusive line-up at the end of that respected generation?
Given the "proof" from past generations.
**EDIT**
I just read my post, smh what I "meant" to say was name a generation where the Xbox exclusives beat out the ps exclusives. My bad.
@zaryia: Metro is one of the games I'm talking about. Control is the other and most of these titles are due to Raytracing. I can name maybe 3 more... again a small percentage. Nearly half the top 20 are PS4 exclusives and you said 2 to 3 games?? .. no need to keep lying when your feelings get hurt.
So you admit lying... keep in mind DF wasn't the only source I was using over the past 8 years. Why would we use the opinion of three guys to judge the entire industry?
Pretty sure I had some DF "best graphics of 2019" vid playing in the background at some point. Wasn't some singular winner thing, each dude had their list and a top pick.
It was a developers conference...meant for, that right "developers". Don't let it ruin the hype.
The meant for the developers is a farce.
Of course, it's a farce. The devs have dev kits for probably a year now and they are actively developing games for it. They already had all the documentation they need. Only idiots really believe they were waiting for Cerny's 1 hour presentation to teach them how to develop for it. Also, no matter how much people like to say otherwise both XSX and PS5 are still just closed PC's.
@zaryia: Metro is one of the games I'm talking about. Control is the other and most of these titles are due to Raytracing. I can name mabye 3 more... again a small percentage.
Hush, it's time to sleep.
DF QUOTES on the "minor" differences of various games:
Gear 5's PC port is a remarkable piece of work. In fact, in my opinion, it's very, very close to being one of the best PC conversions of all-time.
Whether it's a case of tomorrow's technology today, or simply all about getting the most out of Gears 5 across a vast range of PC gamig hardware, the key takeaway is pretty straightforward: The Coalition's work here is exemplary - and sets the standard for other PC ports in virtually every regard.
[Too much to quote from Witcher 3 article so I'll skip that]
Overall though, this is a scalable port that looks simply beautiful, and rewards PC gamers with a big bunch of additional extras and options over console players. Square-Enix has pushed the boat out here to really show us what their engine can do, and it's been fantastic to return to this game and to really see what the Luminous technology is capable of delivering.
Kingdom Come Deliverance on PC offers hugeupgrades over console
What we're dealing with in Metro Exodus is a PC version that clearly stands apart from its console counterparts, both in terms of performance and the visual feature set,
Shadow quality, water refraction quality, parallax occlusion mapping and aspects of tessellation correlate with PC's high setting, but elsewhere, consoles don't go near the higher end of the PC version's spec.
Beyond that though, Control is absolutely a showcase release. With all of the ray tracing settings maxed, it is a legitimate look into the future of real time rendering- but even without, it's a stunning PC title that comes highly recommended.
Ultimately though, despite a small number of issues, there's little doubt in my mind that Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice is a great PC release, much improved experience compared to any of the console releases.
When running on faster hardware, the results are certainly more in line with expectations and it becomes possible to produce visuals that greatly exceed
It looks better than the PS4 version and has the benefit higher resolutions and frame-rates.
Maybe your eyes just suck? Or more likely, you don't have a high end gaming rig or proper display.
@r-gamer said:
keep in mind DF wasn't the only source I was using
Oh. So it was useless bullshit. Cool, keep your opinions to yourself. The big boys are talking.
PS5, like PS4 and PS3, will be competing for the 2nd place in GFX (which includes FPS). Again, it will likely only have 2 or 3 games that can even begin to touch PC after a period of 8 years (one gen). While PC piles up 100's of titles that are god tier.
Sony will probably continue to win best graphic awards every year.
@r-gamer said:
DF hasn't given the award for 8 years.
It's kind of too easy sometimes to play people into my hands.
@r-gamer said:
@vfighter: He always owns himself .
I've beaten the both of you in every single debate we've ever had using reputable citation. This time in {System Wars} it's Digital Foundry, next time it might be the GAO or NASA in the {Political Forum}.
"No man those peer reviewed studies are false because [leaves thread]".
@zaryia: Lol more self ownage.. couldn't even come up with more then 5 games and then you used Gears 5 which is sad because the XSX has higher settings then the PC!
DF doesn't say the opposite... lol your either blind or can't read.
HZD took it in 2017. Spiderman/RDR2 took in 2018( RDR wasn't even on PC) and the PC smuck said BF5 because of Raytracing.
And DS and Metro took it in 2019.
So the past 3 years DF gave the award its
3 PS exclusives
1 PS/Xbox multiplat
2 PS/Xbox/PC multiplat
So by your rules the PC had 2 winners! Lol looks like its fighting for second.
Since people are again lying about Sony First Party and downplaying other devs, A reminder of flagship Sony exclusive 3 years later vs last gen PC game:
Loading Video...
Stop trying to compete with the PC's best, first beat the last gen PC games. Baby steps.
@zaryia: DF hasn't given the award since 2012 they started in 2017. You claimed PC won at DF the past 8 years and you lied!. Since 2017( since they gave awards) they are second place. This is by your rules since we only use DF.
My count was accurate. PS4 3, PC2 XB 1...
You lose!
Unless you link the awards from 2012, 2013 and show the PC won I consider this another loss for you.
Actually I think I have gone too far. Crysis 3 doesn't need to br brought up. I think I should have gone with Metro 2033 from 2010. If I remember correctly the Redux had to be downgraded to make it run on PS4 and there's still not a single console game that has fully dynamic lighting with the scope of Metro 2033. 10 years and counting. Baby steps!
I suggest getting a gaming rig to solve that issue. I wouldn't want to play the bad version of most major releases for 8 years in a row. It would drive me insane too.
@zaryia: DS and RDR2 were not on PC when they won the award. RDR2 came to PC in 2019 and wasn't nominated. DS still isn't on PC.
Again PS4 3, PC 2, XB1 1.
By your own rules PS4 won at DF...
Take the L!
Sorry my typo confused you, but it doesn't change the fact you lied. DF didn't give awards in 2012. You made the 8 year claim and you specifically mentioned DF.
But you said there was no award at DF. Are you having a meltdown?
@r-gamer said:
RDR2 came to PC in 2019 and wasn't nominated.
Arbitrary nonsense.
Acting like I won't continue to put RDR2 on a list of PC games that look better than anything on PS4 when played on Ultra because of a fake cut-off date.
Save up for a gaming PC, I assure you it's easier than twisting yourself with weird illogical nonsense like this.
@r-gamer said:
By your own rules PS4 won at DF...
So 1 win for PS4, HZD.
PC games have the most mentions at DF's end of year videos from 2012-2020. It has 4 alone since 2017, which is more than PS4. This includes RDR2 and soon DS. Multiplats are auto wins for PC, as they look best on PC.
If you want the best (and most of the best) gfx - you get a PC. Not PS4 to experience 1 or 2 after 8 years (neither of which make it 1st place).
HZD is literally your only contender now even when reviewing those DF vids. While on PC I can list several. And even HZD is comming to PC.
Lol @ arguing about better graphics. Games look so freaking great these days that the argument is pretty useless especially when we are talking about high budget games. Fancy graphics is nothing special. But it is fun even if it stupid.😂
Lol @ arguing about better graphics. Games look so freaking great these days that the argument is pretty useless especially when we are talking about high budget games. Fancy graphics is nothing special. But it is fun even if it stupid.😂
Agreed. In which case it's better to list which system has the most of these games which one can subjectively debate against.
@zaryia: This whole narrative that you've never lost a debate or argument is laughable at best, pathetic at worst, now cross out what I wrote and make sure you use a lot of bolded words lol. You're so predictable.
@zaryia: You thinking you "won" is very different from you actually winning. But what's even sadder is you have them bookmarked, lmao, I'm in your head 24/7. I dont know how I feel about that, a little creeped out if I'm being honest.
@zaryia: @zaryia: Lol your lying your ass off and just making shit up. Most mentions at DF???? Your just making shit up now. If that's the new standard the PC still loses because I can at least a dozen PS4 exclusives that make up the top 20. UC4, God of War , SoC, The Order 1886, Spiderman, Death Stranding, Horizon Zero Dawn, Days Gone, GTS, DC, Infamous SS have all been featured on there respective year end tech videos.
You said the PC won the most awards at DF over the past 8 years. They only crowned winners the past 3 years... so you lied!
I said the PS will continue to win most the best graphics awards( it will) and you made up the BS DF rule and it bit you in the ass.
I counted the awards and it's as follows
PS4 3, PC2, XB1 1
You are counting DS on PC eventhough it's not even out on PC yet! And if you want to count RDR2 on PC for top 100 that's fine but it never won best visuals for PC. It may also not even be best on PC when the new consoles come out. Take Gears 5 as an example which looks superior on XSX.
Ps: it looks like you lose alot of debates to VFighter as well.
XSX has a split memory setup with 10GB of high speed ram for games and 6GB of slower speed ram split between OS and 3D Sound which will further increase bottlenecks.
Scenario 1
For XSX GPU memory bandwdith
1st slice, 26 GB/s x 6 = 156 GB/s potential
2nd slice, 26 GB/s x 6 = 156 GB/s potential
3rd slice, 56 GB/s x 4 = 224 GB/s potential
IF CPU consumes 50 GB/s from 1st slice i.e. 156 - 50 = 106 then the total GPU bandwdith is 486 GB/s
----
For PS5 GPU memory bandwdith
448 - 50 = 398 GB/s
-----
XSX GPU has 22% memory bandwidth advantage.
PS5 GPU takes slightly more than half a penalty hit (ie. 4.5%) like RX 5600 OC 36 CU (336GB/s) vs RX 5700 36 CU (448 GB/s)= 8% performance hit.
XSX vs PS5 GPU performance gap is about 23% to 24.5%
Not factoring TFLOPS scaling issues with gimp GPU memory bandwidth.
FAIL!
LMFAO...why are you trying to apply numbers to PS5 as if it has the same I/O set up as XSX? 🤦♂️
IF CPU consumes 50 GB/s from 1st slice i.e. 156 - 50 = 106 then the total GPU bandwdith is 486 GB/s
----
For PS5 GPU memory bandwdith
448 - 50 = 398 GB/s
-----
lol wut!
For one thing the performance of XSX I/O set up is asymmetrical.
That's error # 1 for you.
PS5's is not!
The asymmetric configuration used for X1X can lead to reduced bandwidth once the symmetrical portion is full. The PlayStation 5 configuration, on the other hand, allows a static bandwidth for the entire 16 GB of GDDR6.
The PS5 does not have the bottlenecks of X1X's asymmetrical configuration.
Another correction for your graph claiming 16GB at 560GB/s.....
The XSX has 2.5 GB reserved for system functions, so the max ram XSX will ever have for games is 13.5GB/s, not 16GB/s. The XSX will also only have 10GB of interleaved memory operating at 560 GB/s for game utilization before it has to start "lowering" the effective bandwidth, PS5 never has to lower it's bandwidth. The XSX mixes and matches memory types which is another bottleneck that PS5 does not have. The XSX is either at a disadvantage in total available memory vs PS5's full 16GB or the PS5 will be more efficient when more intensive games require more memory and XSX is bottlenecked by having to mix it's memory further taxing CPU resources.
That's error #2
As I already pointed out to you PS5 is designed completely different.
Look at this graph to understand how PS5 and XSX are different in design.
PS5's custom hardware is seamlessly marries the SSD to the main processor. A custom flash marries up to the SSD modules via a 12 channel interface, delivering the required 5.5GB/s of performance with a total of 825GB of storage. The controller itself hooks up to the main processor via a four-lane PCI Express 4.0 interconnect, and contains a number of bespoke hardware blocks designed to eliminate SSD bottlenecks. The system has six priority levels, meaning that developers can literally prioritize the delivery of data according to the game's needs.
A dedicated DMA controller (equivalent to one or two Zen 2 cores in performance terms) directs data to where it needs to be, while two dedicated, custom processors handle I/O and memory mapping. On top of that, coherency engines operate as housekeepers of sorts.
RELEVANT QUOTES FROM Mark Cerny:
"Coherency comes up in a lot of places, probably the biggest coherency issue is stale data in the GPU caches," explains Cerny in his presentation. "Flushing all the GPU caches whenever the SSD is read is an unattractive option - it could really hurt the GPU performance - so we've implemented a gentler way of doing things, where the coherency engines inform the GPU of the overwritten address ranges and custom scrubbers in several dozen GPU caches do pinpoint evictions of just those address ranges."
All of this is delivered to developers without them needing to do anything. Even the decompression is taken care of by the custom silicon. "You just indicate what data you'd like to read from your original, uncompressed file, and where you'd like to put it, and the whole process of loading it happens invisibly to you and at very high speed," Cerny explains.
Now look at the current gen bottlenecks our standard SSDs have to address.
Check in and Load Management
File I/O
Mapping
Coherency
Decompression
With bottlenecks a 10X faster drive can be reduced to less that 2x it's actual speed.
This is how standard SSD's are set up and the bottlenecks XSX will encounter.
This, however, is how PS5's design!
With it's bottleneck-less custom I/O configuration by Mark Cerny this is how PS5 will perform.
100% utilization at all times with no speed loss.
All this before even adding in the Tempest engine for audio which further reduces CPU utilization and CU usage.
Error #3
PS5's design ensures it will never have the bandwidth issues XSX does.
There is no comparison between the to hardware designs.
The XSX simply has a slower interface than PlayStation 5's. The solution used by Mark Cerny allows for better data management within the RAM as well, allowing for less frequent reloading of data into the RAM, improving system efficiency.
You want to apply XSX inferior I/0 configuration to PS5 but you simply can't. It's configuration is a generation behind PS5's.
The XSX is a more powerful high end PC like console, but it's still using a last gen configuration that will hinder some of it's impressive sounding specs. The PS5, however, is more advanced in it's design and will allow developers to do more things in less time because of it's powerful SSD and bottleneck crushing I/O configuration built in at a hardware level and will allow for more advanced next generation games.
There isn't anything to be worried about regarding 3rd party however because in 90% of all games devs will shoot for a middle ground between both systems. A few games will favor XSX and a few will favor PS5, but if you're expecting some huge advantage in favor of XSX with simple 3rd party games, you're just going to be really disappointed.
@boxrekt: All of that babble because you can't handle the fact that the Series X is a stronger performer across the board when it comes to memory, CPU and GPU. No amount of argument can change that fact. Time for you to focus on the PS5 games. You know, like Godfall. ;)
Also you don't know what you are talking about for the Series X. So, please stop.
Liar In the last 4 years ALONE PC has gotten 4. That's 3 more than PS4 which has only gotten 1 (HZD).
Like DS, HZD will soon be on PC. Giving PC 5 and PS4 0. And that's just since 2018. A majority of games mentioned are on PC.
And that't not even mentioning the fact PC is currently GFX KING, and has the most GFX KINGS.
@r-gamer said: I can at least a dozen PS4 exclusives that make up the top 20.
I can name far more multiplats that are on PC and look better than PS4 games, theres dozens.
@r-gamer said:
It may also not even be best on PC when the new consoles come out.
Like the last 3 gens, almost every major AAA video game will look and run better on PC next gen. Look at Digital Foundry Face Offs, most that have PC state PC is the best version.
Why play the worst version of most games over the course of 8 years? Poor?
That sucks!
@r-gamer said:
Ps: it looks like you lose alot of debates to VFighter as well.
Gas-Lighting.
In one instance he literally said "XYZ" and then I showed an official W.H.O document or Britannica directly stating the opposite.
@boxrekt: All of that babble because you can't handle the fact that the Series X is a stronger performer across the board when it comes to memory, CPU and GPU. No amount of argument can change that fact. Time for you to focus on the PS5 games. You know, like Godfall. ;)
Also you don't know what you are talking about for the Series X. So, please stop.
And MS will continue to have little to no good exclusives next gen.....they simply don't give a shit. ALSO, going by what devs are saying and the PS5 has it's advantages...don't be suprised if you see games on the PS5 that look and perform better on it.
@boxrekt: All of that babble because you can't handle the fact that the Series X is a stronger performer across the board when it comes to memory, CPU and GPU. No amount of argument can change that fact. Time for you to focus on the PS5 games. You know, like Godfall. ;)
Also you don't know what you are talking about for the Series X. So, please stop.
And MS will continue to have little to no good exclusives next gen.....they simply don't give a shit. ALSO, going by what devs are saying and the PS5 has it's advantages...don't be suprised if you see games on the PS5 that look and perform better on it.
Id be surprised to see the same game looking and running better on PS5.
Secret sauce has been proven to be damage control in previous generations.
@zaryia: More lies. PS4 has over a dozen games mentioned. I listed them earlier. With the PS5 the PC may have 0. Imagine paying $1500 two years ago only to get beat by a $400 prebuilt box. Ouch!
HZD and DS pretty much a lock to be best on PS5.. I expect RDR2 as well. And with visual enhancement to current exclusives PS5 may take the entire top 20.
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