Is America finally witnessing its collapse?

@Nude_Dude said:

@wervenom: Man this has stopped being funny and I realize I'm wasting my time with you, but... the 'article' you linked (1) contradicts your statements about 80% of media being 'owned by the left' (2) comes from a rightwing astroturfing questionable source with various anti-environmentalist, climate change denial hitpieces. In other news, you just posted actual fake news (again). Next time try posting an actual study with data that isn't circulating in the far-right circles you frequent?

Speaking of more alternative facts... what is the study of the graph you posted with no explanation (other than blurting FACTZ)? Reverse google image search only turns up a swedish nazi who retweeted it and a white nationalist news source. Where is the actual data coming from? I looked up the source it is 'citing' and it does not corroborate it:

Is this the source? Cause that refutes your graph; black-on-white crime is just 15% when white-on-white is over 60%.

I mean I already knew the outcome of this before even searching, cause when people like you claim to post 'facts', all they actually do is misuse statistics and data they don't understand to further their racist narrative and radicalize more people for their cause. It's because you WANT to be seen as persecuted, but there is no systemic oppression of white people, nor are other races beating down whites, so your only way of pretending to be a victim is by fabricating and misrepresenting data. Your country was founded upon white supremacy and only in the last few decades (i.e. after we saw what peak white supremacy is like - it brought Europe to the brink of destruction in what is now known as WW2) has it been called into question. White nationalist circles are peddling this garbage about whites being the real victims cause that's the only way they can further their agenda. If you were not a racist, your priority would be to call out the system that has whites (through the KKK, the white nationalists, the police or just any random citizen with a gun apparently) murdering black people in broad daylight and getting away with it.

But you are a scared white man, and your nature has you being afraid of your own shadow. That's why you hide behind your guns and side with the police against the plight of african americans; at best you just don't care, at worst you're yet another white nationalist blindly grasping at straws. This is why you cry to trump to get armed forces to trample over protesters (a clear violation of the first amendment - but I thought you were all for free speech and the right to bear arms? maybe you are just disingenuous and it was never about the amendments after all). This is why you frantically blame antifa and the left wing for looting and burning buildings, even though there are demonstrable cases of far right groups inciting violence during the protests with the goal of undermining them.

This is also why you keep throwing out cliches from the conservative playbook. The left supposedly controls everything, even though you have a rightwing nut in the white house and conservatives dominate the government and platforms like twitter. It's all lies you feed to yourself, cause scared people always need some kind of outside enemy to concentrate on, like african americans, immigrants or leftwing people. Your behavior is hilariously one note and predictable, and your cries of 'NPC!' are blatant projections - that's why the left returns those words to you, even the term NPC has been made NPC-like by its nature. Lastly, there are no antifa chapters, try to do some research before hitting that post button; and by research I mean do a basic google search... and please don't post an article from stormfront saying that there are, you're wasting everyone's time.

I actually never saw your response.

So let's get to it. That's actually not the source the source was from an FBI statistic. Also that right wing media outlet that you said was questionable linked a pier reviewed study. This is the problem with leftist. If a media outlet even so much as reports something you don't like it's fake news.

Also wtf are you talking about? Most crime is committed by people of the same race. I never claimed otherwise. But when talking about interracial crime blacks kill whites far more then whites kill blacks. You will not find a single source that disputes this an if you can please post it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers%3fcontext=amp

Again can you refute this? Your narrative is that blacks are the victims but statistics say otherwise.

And you can hate how this nation was founded all you want. The fact is it's currently the greatest nation on earth. And If you think you can name a place better chances are it's also predominantly white. And keep in mind it was mostly white people who saved Europe from white supremacy. Then you go on into your standard fear mongering bullshit. Fight against the KKK? The KKK is fucking irrelevant and has been for nearly 50 years. If you want to fight ghost be my guest.

And do you honestly think white supremacists are mostly responsible for looting and rioting? Don't dodge this question like a coward because I want you to honestly a answer this.

Because this doesn't look like alt white right supremacist

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/video/4567848-raw-video-looters-raid-target-store-near-mpls-protest/

Neither does this

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-05/looting-protests-george-floyd%3f_amp=true

So if you honestly think white supremacists are behind the majority of looting you are beyond delusional.

Also stop talking about my nature. You don't know me. Your nature is to stand in front of a car chanting BLM only to get your ass kicked. Your type is the most pathetic group of cowards I've ever seen that's why you wear mask and sucker punch people. Lol if white people are so pathetic and scared then how do they supposedly have so much power. How were they able to inflict their will on all of America. Your argument contradicts itself.

And your right I do hide behind my guns but it's not because I'm scared. It's because I know the police and government are largely incompetent bumbling idiots. And NPC's like you are only worried about when one who happens to be white kills one who happens to be black. When in reality statistics show they do this to everyone. And that's what you should be worried about. Police brutality and a police state is bad for EVERYONE not just PoC. But I want the right to bear arms so I can handle the problem myself if need be as opposed to relying the same morons who incompetently killed an unarmed black man.

They knew about the virus in January from a senators meeting. All they did was dump their stock with insider trading and the DoJ let them get away with it.

If they had started the lockdown seven days earlier, it could have reduced the impact by something like 40%.

And even now, the government is happy to waste tax money left and right, but they have nothing for the people when they need it. Plenty of money for defence spending and oil subsudies that aren't needed and bailouts for corporations, but nothing for the people. Didn't Steven Mnuchin say that the $1200 people got should stretch for 10 weeks or something.

Testing levels are low and Trump tries to make out it's not needed. Originally he resisted testing because he though the numbers would make his re-election look bad.

So how do we blame China for how Trump has handled this?

And the government does nothing about racism and improving Police training. Improving Police training especially de-escalations sound like simple solutions to me.

I think we are seeing the end of America as a Super Power, especially as a world wide leader in Global affairs.

people are going to have to accept this. We don't have our shit together and the world isn't going to rely on us anymore, or seek better relations

No, America has had some trying times before and it got through those. This is just a rough patch. Hopefully November gives us a turning point with a new administration.

@HalcyonScarlet: Bla bla bla at the prior, but this struck me...

‘And the government does nothing about racism and improving Police training. Improving Police training especially de-escalations sound like simple solutions to me.’

That is all bullshit. Do you have any idea how much sensitivity training police get? They’re fed a deluge of mandatory classes and quizzes they have to take AND PASS or suffer suspension or firing. They’ve been ahead of the game for decades and before corporations. A bad apple slips through the cracks - just like in any industry since the beginning of time. You can’t guarantee or predict every person will be perfect. That’s the nature of humans.

Also, where’s the proof Floyd’s cop was racially motivated?

Which of these officers was the bad apple?

What does racial motivation have to do with anything I said? There is so much proof that Police training in America is poor and overly aggressive. Brutality, killings, BS charges, if you disrespect them they try to charge you with resisting arrest, even though there isn't a prior charge that you're resisting, just endless BS. Sensitivity training is not taken seriously.

A Police officer was fired for de-escalating a situation instead of pulling the trigger: https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police/police-officer-wins-settlement-city-fired-him-not-shooting

They even have a course called "Warrior training" an aggressive fear based training course.

"A bad apple slips through the cracks", I mean how many bad apples does it take? Right now it looks like an orchard.

I think all of this is a joke. There's no proof of racial injustice and there's no proof of what the cop did was racially motivated. And now COD is shoving BLM down peoples' throats of literally no reason. People don't even know wtf they're actually protesting about. This is plain embarrassing. Alexis De Tocqueville said that revolutions/riots occur when everyone's lives begin to improve and this is exactly what's happening.

People know what they are protesting. You're just ignoring it to fit your narrative. Begin to improve? Wow. Not even close this is a bad year for many.

@LJS9502_basic: This event has brought out all kinds. But the problem here is people with an agenda trying to alter the focus to something more beneficial to them.

It’s just sad some on the right deny racial injustice exists while witnessing it.

@wervenom: You are terribly disingenuous, don't know how to read statistics at all and keep regurgitating even more white nationalist filth. Not only that, you keep lying and again you shied away from addressing my points, other than blurting out a false "my sources are right". Let's break this down for you, dear white snowflake.

1) The media bias part: your so-called facts are outright wrong and you certainly didn't prove that a "vast majority of media is left of center"; in fact your source disproves this. The cited paper is here, it was picked up by rightwing biased news outlets like daily wire and your original source, but they (as usual) misrepresent the numbers. First of all, the source is entirely based on financial journalists posting financial news. You know, the thing that has nothing to do with the kind of journalism we're talking about - it's not even polling the target group you're looking for! Second of all, if you look at Table 1 (pg. 48), their views are described as 17.63% very liberal, 40.84% liberal, for a total of 58.47% "liberals" (and contrary to what your far right buddies may believe, liberal is not left of center). That leaves 41.53% conservatives and moderates. You claimed 80% of journalists are left of center and 90% of entertainment is far left - which is complete bull by your own source.

Let's try another source, cause sources are fun! Published just a couple of months ago, a study finds no liberal bias in which stories political journalists choose to cover. You know, the target group of journalists you wanted to refer to but somehow ended up in financial journalism, probably cause you never even checked the source you blindly linked. So looks like the actual facts are painting a different story than you would like... or should I say, they don't care about your fffffffeelings?

2) The crime statistics part (oh god). You did not answer my question so let me bolden the following for you in case your eyes conveniently skip this part as well - where is the source for the original graph you posted coming from? The only citation I found was "Table 14" from the Bureau of Justice Statistics' 2018 annual report, which I posted for you. On a second look it seems like whoever made the graph you posted just took the raw numbers and posted them on a scale with no context, instead of the percentages the actual report uses (which show no sign of black-on-white persecution). Whoever made the graph also conveniently left out that white incidents were polled almost 7 times more than black incidents - so if we were to extrapolate, the white-on-black crimes would be about the same column height as black-on-white crimes. Of course this is not science, this is pure nonsense - just like the graph you picked up to fuel your racist narrative and agenda. Where did you find this graph again? Why does it only seem to circulate in white nationalist circles? Why is the only relevant search coming up /pol/? I'm sure that you "have no idea what sites are far right" but somehow picked up a talking point straight from the newest 'statistics' in /pol/. You don't even know them right? Truly fascinating!

So, that leaves your next statement, "blacks kill whites far more than whites kill blacks" completely unfounded by the sources you cited - again, you didn't prove jack shit, you passed on misinformation disguised as statistics that did not reflect the original source. On to your next source (US news), I will quote the following: (bolding is mine)

The most detailed racial data have limits: They are confined to cases in which one person was killed and one person did the killing, eliminating about 17 percent of homicides. Also, police have to know and provide the backgrounds of not only the victims but the perpetrators, too – meaning that thousands of cases left unsolved and with no description of the person who committed the crimes are discounted. In total, about 61 percent of the 15,696 homicides committed in 2015 are excluded.

Black people have consistently accounted for close to half the country's homicide victims, making up more than 50 percent of the broader pool of those killed overall every year since 2010. The number of black victims increased 15 percent in 2015 over 2014.

So not only are they reporting data on less than half of all homicides, there is (1) no change in black-on-white and white-on-black homicides to indicate a trend, and (2) black people continue to get the short end of the stick as the group that is most often killed in the US. Sorry white man, no matter how afraid you are of people of color, your statistical chances of being attacked by one of them don't differ than their own - and you have a far better chance in staying alive in the US than any one of them. But hey, if you want to play the victim but the data doesn't back you up, at least you can always pretend you're a victim! I'm sure this is the part in your racist propaganda programming where you veer off into a tangent about black-on-black crime statistics, as if that is relevant to racial biases of the police and totally not the next deflecting technique white supremacists use, all the while ignoring any socioeconomic factors that have played into this inequality between black people and white people... for the last 400 years and counting.

Is it my turn for sources now? How about the racial bias of the Ferguson police department which only came to light after another african american had to die? (I'm sure once the report of Minneapolis is out, it's not going to paint a very different story) Or the longer sentences passed down to black (and hispanic) people than whites for the same crimes? Or the mass discrepancies in incarceration rates? Careful if you try to argue about this, you might slip up and imply white people are inherently good and non-white people are inherently criminals, and you don't want to out yourself as a complete racist just yet. Can you refute these trends? Is police anywhere in the US unfairly targeting white people for their skin color and passing down harder sentences because of their skin color? (hint- nope) So miss me with your disingenuous racist nonsense and handwaving.

3) The protests. Did you know that the only call for violence that came from antifa on twitter was actually white supremacist group 'Identity Europa' pretending to be antifa? Could it be because they wanted to influence the narrative and have gullible chums or biased racists (feel free to choose a category) repeat this narrative unchecked? Did you know that the LA riots in 1992 also had the media narrative trying to frame african americans as the sole source of looting when close to 60% were whites and hispanics? The protests currently are far from over, so there is no data to speak of yet (and I know how people like you like 'facts' and 'stats', except when they don't prove your point), so you have to resort to cherry picked incidents. I can play this game too!

Any thoughts on this incident? Or the one where police shove an old man and throw him on the ground, leaving him in a pool of blood? Or idiot millionaire Jake Paul getting charged for looting when he has no reason to? See how whites enter the equation when nobody called them in, see how white supremacy manifests itself through police brutality?

Or you know what, **** it. Here are OVER TWO HUNDRED videos and footage of who the real aggressor in these protests is. Go through every single one please and do explain how every single one is ok for you - I'll be here waiting. Cherry picking seems easier when there's a lot of cherries to pick. I know you like to act like that one looted Target was someone's kid, sorry if my empathy extends to real people.

4) The rest of your post. I couldn't care less about who you are, I only care about what you said. And what you're saying paints you as a scared, fragile white person who clings onto whatever racist narrative lies in your field of vision to discredit the protests and draw attention away from them. You resort to white nationalist talking points because those are the only kind of people backing up any of this drivel. As a lot of angry white men in america, you use guns as a show of power to disguise your weakness. In your own words:

And you can hate how this nation was founded all you want. The fact is it's currently the greatest nation on earth. And If you think you can name a place better chances are it's also predominantly white. And keep in mind it was mostly white people who saved Europe from white supremacy.

Hey genius, white people started this whole white supremacy thing. White people started the second world war. They don't exactly earn anyone's favor by ending the shit they themselves started. This is the same nonsense as saying white people out to be praised for abolishing slavery eventually - in other words, you want brownie points for doing the obvious thing you needed to do and stop doing what you should have never done in the first place? That's laughable. Sure America is great*, but apparently only if you're white, aka the race in power - if you are any other shade of color then you're risking your life just existing in the US as it seems. Your own words, again:

Lol if white people are so pathetic and scared then how do they supposedly have so much power. How were they able to inflict their will on all of America.

Wow, you are this close to becoming self aware, kudos! You almost admitted the institutional white supremacy upon which America is founded, which allows you to have an upper hand on pretty much any other group in the US while being a completely average, unimportant white guy. Now if you only took the time to learn some US history, you might also find out how white people subjugated natives in foreign shores out of fear and desire for exploitation ~300-400 years ago, leading to an imbalance that persists to this day - and it is the very thing that allows you to "inflict your will on all of america". Thanks for nullifying all your previous points - glad you admit white people are not victims, nor are they persecuted, but they are in fact perpetrators of white supremacy to varying degrees.

This took a while to write cause your nonsense is so ridiculous your points deserve to be ridiculed. I have a hunch you will never respond to any of the papers, news or sources I brought up, and continue with more far-right biased nonsense, so it's safe to say I won't waste this much of my time again with you.

*: well, up until coronavirus exposed how much of a fraud your unregulated capitalism is and it blew up in your face... not to mention the crippingly awful healthcare system, the anti-environmentalist and general anti-science policies due to idiots having power, the rise of fascism even though your troops fought against it less than 100 years ago... maybe america isn't that great, ya know?

@mattbbpl said:

@Sevenizz said:

@HalcyonScarlet: Bla bla bla at the prior, but this struck me...

‘And the government does nothing about racism and improving Police training. Improving Police training especially de-escalations sound like simple solutions to me.’

That is all bullshit. Do you have any idea how much sensitivity training police get? They’re fed a deluge of mandatory classes and quizzes they have to take AND PASS or suffer suspension or firing. They’ve been ahead of the game for decades and before corporations. A bad apple slips through the cracks - just like in any industry since the beginning of time. You can’t guarantee or predict every person will be perfect. That’s the nature of humans.

Also, where’s the proof Floyd’s cop was racially motivated?

Which of these officers was the bad apple?

Clearly the one watching. His fellow officers clearly and desperately needs his help. /s

Also, isn't the whole saying "a few bad apples spoils the bunch"? The point not being to excuse a few bad apples, but rather having them can ruin the whole thing

@horgen: That lazy son of a gun

@drlostrib: that's precisely right

Some don't just deny it. Some argue the opposite is the case.

Aren't you a Canadian? Our police get far more and better training in general on these things than our American counterparts. While CACP has been talking about these issues for decades and has had a national use of force framework with a heavy emphasis on de-escalation training, the NACOP in the US doesn't. Instead they push tactical training, CQC, firearms training etc. The difference between the two is stark.

And even though we have more and better training in these areas than the US, we still have more than our fair share of racial issues with policing in Canada.

exactly. chris rock nailed it in 2018

Speaking of sayings: Great minds think alike, though fools seldom differ. Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.

I don't remember exactly how it goes, but the "Money is the root of all" evil is also wrong. It's the love of money which is the root of all evil. Something like that.

Blood is thicker than water also has exact opposite meaning of the original one.

That will be my end of going off topic :P