All things related to Donald Trump's ever-growing legal woes

@davillain: This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it.

Abraham Lincoln

pay attention

great listen!

@gifford38: That quote is:

A) not from the constitution

B) states the constitutional right to amend it, not overthrow it

Damn, after reading the penalties for these charges, even one has like ten years. Some have twenty.

The success rate of DOJ convictions should have Trump very concerned; they would not be filing these, especially of a former POTUS, unless they were absolutely positive they could get a conviction.

This is going to be very interesting to watch. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Trump tried to flee.

Curious if he'll even bother to go to trial, or sneak away to claim asylum in Russia. And if he does that, wonder how long before he gets thrown out a window for mouthing off.

@lamprey263: Trump might hide with his friends in Saudi Arabia instead.

If Trump was selling state secrets, it probably went to them (perhaps via Kushner, who had a history of making huge document requests, and who recently received $2 billion from the Saudis).

Let em know Mark, well said 👍👍👍

@sargentd: The law catches up with criminals eventually.

Oh another idiot right wing ranter too stupid to understand what is going on.

Sorry, cry about it more. Anyone who willfully retains nuclear secrets in his bathroom should be prosecuted.

😂

That was delicious, I think I saw steam coming out of his ears. More MAGA meltdowns, please.

Best part about all of this is Trump signed into law making the mishandling of classified documents a felony. Guess this clown didn’t take that into consideration before blaming everyone else.

@sargentd: So I'm curious:

1) Do you think Trump stored documents containing national defence material at Mar a Lago?

2) Do you think Trump was allowed to store those documents at his properties?

3) Do you think Trump complied with all requests to return those documents on time?

Please try answering these without referring to Biden. I'm just trying to figure out what specific actions Trump supporters think he did and didn't do.

Wonder who he hoped to get in prison by doing so. Hillary or someone else.

Hillary, no doubt.

Don't see that happening. Saudis would not trade normal relations with US to protect some orange buffoon who already gave them everything they wanted (he's useless now without power).

Imagine being rich and having this bathroom design on purpose.

Yet he could not get her in prison himself.

I'm 4 pages into the 48 page indictment.

It's a thing of beauty. I highly encourage everyone in this thread to at least skim the first few pages.

It's also sounding completely airtight so far, as expected. It really clearly lays out the timeline of events, such as Trump removing hundreds of documents after his presidency ended, Trump showing some of these documents to others (on tape! Admitting that he shouldn't show them to people!), and Trump deliberately hiding the documents from the FBI and lying about their whereabouts.

As much as I'm morbidly interested to hear Trump's attempt to defend himself, I can't imagine how he can possibly wriggle free here.

Trump was such a great president that he passed legislation to put himself behind bars? Or is Trump part of the anti-Trump conspiracy and is witch-hunting himself? Pure 5D chess, considering he's secretly still the acting president.

Other highlights from the first half of the indictment:

- It took Trump a year to return 197 documents, then a subpoena to return another 38 documents, then an FBI search to locate another 102 documents

- Despite hosting tons of events at Mar-a-Lago while the documents were poorly stored there, Trump never told the Secret Service protecting those events that he had the documents on-site

- The FBI has tons of text messages between Trump's staff showing (a) Trump directly ordered particular boxes to be stored in particular rooms, (b) they shared pictures showing that the boxes contained highly classified documents, and (c) they had a lot of internal chatter about moving the boxes after Trump was ordered to return them, which demonstrates that the defendants lied during the investigation

- The FBI has an audio recording with a writer and publisher where Trump admitted he didn't declassify the documents; and testimony from at least one other source where he showed off documents he wasn't allowed access to

*edit* Now I'm up to a part where they include Trump's attorney's personal notes, which claim that Trump asked his attorney to pretend they didn't have the documents.

*edit 2* They have text messages between his family members and his staff discussing whether or not to take some of the boxes with them on a plane trip.

*edit 3* They have Trump's call logs, making it clear he instructed his co-defendent to move 30 boxes just before his attorney reviewed the storage room.

Another fun part is that Trump's aide, Walt Nauta, has also been accused of these crimes.

He's mega screwed on this one, since they have all of his text messages and call logs, and they have all of the surveillance footage at Mar-a-Lago showing him moving the boxes around.

They don't *need* Nauta to flip on Trump, since they've got enough evidence to convict Trump anyway, but I imagine getting the co-conspirator to admit guilt would eliminate any chance Trump has to defend himself.

@Planeforger: Trump can still run for President while behind bars, right?

I forgot he has Twitter these days.

@horgen: He can.

Odd that you often lose your right to vote, but not the chance to run for president.

@horgen: My opinion is that you shouldn't lose your right to vote, but people love forcing others into second class citizen status.

I agree. No one should lose their right to vote.

@horgen: My lord, his writing is atrocious.

Now we know what you will say when Brandon is in the court under oaths. libs have no court case and this will fail again a witch hunt fishing exposition. Trump is very experienced and has presented in court many times and this is another one of the many. I give them credit bc they put a lot of detail to present the case in the indict document and they give it to the public quickly right away - not drag it with trying smearing Donald J Trump - libs already learn that every time it will be to the advantage of the campaign, already we see nobody in the party no opponent in the nomination will support the court case only chris crhistie.

Everybody seeing already the writing on the wall the failure of the court case - no voter will change the mind and no politican will change minds about Donald J Trump 2024 - even Ron DeSantis.

Only question at this point is what the severity of the penalty will be. He's absolutely going to be convicted.

TUMP 2024 IS INEVITABLE 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲

@thatforumuser: Mate, have you read the indictment? This isn't a witch-hunt. They've got phone records, text messages, photos, surveillance footage, audio recordings, signed statements from Trump staff, etc. etc. all clearly supporting every single one of their claims that Trump committed multiple crimes here.

The DOJ doesn't indict former presidents on a whim. They're only proceeding because they are certain that their evidence will lead to a conviction - and if you read the indictment, you'll see why their case is so strong.

Also, Trump talking in court is the absolute worst thing that Trump could do to defend himself. He rambles and makes things up on the spot. He'll incriminate himself within minutes of giving testimony (similar to how his statements and conduct totally ruined him in the defamation case a few weeks ago, and then he blabbed after the case and now risks losing a further $10 million).

It's worth noting that some of the charges only exist because Trump kept bragging to people that he had the documents (and showing them the docs) while knowingly being recorded by members of the public, and because Trump did silly things like directly asking his former attorneys to hide the documents. He is completely incapable of guile.

I’ve always considered Trump to be an idiot; even a cursory observation of the way he speaks and writes is indicative of such, but after reading through the indictment?

Remarkable. He has really sunk himself and sabotaged any semblance of a defense. I don’t know if he is genuinely so dense as to not understand the gravitas of what he‘s done, or he’s so used to getting away with his crimes that he believes he is untouchable and can do whatever he wants. From what it sounds like, he was using our national secrets to bolster his sense of self-importance and brag. I personally believe he has compromised us willingly, either for profit or because his past shenanigans have put him in a position of blackmail.

Don‘t know how any true American can support this man at this point. It is beyond evident he has no business being anywhere near our most sensitive information.

AMERICA'S MOST WANTED

TRUMP 2024

GET YOUR REVENGE 2024

@MirkoS77: I really think it's the latter. He does not think laws apply to him. He blatantly lies, constantly contradicts himself, and generally does not seem to give a shit about anything but himself. He has disgraced America and enabled other destructive, gaslighting individuals to do the same.

@sargentd: So what are your answers to my questions from earlier?

I'm genuinely interested in hearing why you believe Trump is innocent, and which elements of the indictment you disagree with.

I mean...I understand the MAGA position is "the investigation is corrupt!' and "let's violently overthrow the government", but I don't think I've seen any Trump supporters actually read the indictment and then comment on the arguments within it.

Also, lol @ the Punisher meme. If Trump is anyone in the Marvel universe, he's the Kingpin.

@Planeforger: litteraly every president has taken documents when they leave office. Hell so did Biden as a senator and Hillary as secretary of state. Those positions don't even allow you to declassify! Nobody has ever given a shit about this untill Trump!

It is blatantly obvious that the establishment is all for weaponizing the DOJ against their political opposition. This is a dangerous precident being set. If they succeed in doing this to Trump we might as well just accept that if anyone from outside the traditional political establishment ever decides to run, they will be forced out. It's actually sad.

How can Hillary as secretary of state get caught running private servers in her house, get caught breaking phones with hammers to cover it up, but the DOJ sees no reason to pursue charges.

Trump ...as president...takes documents after his term, something every president has done... and they try to layer trivilous felonies, over 30 charges! That all just boil down to he had documents in his house..

Anybody with even an ounce of common sense can see the hypocrisy. The only ones who can't see it are the never Trumpers and leftist partisans. They refuse to even acknowledge the clear targeting going on against Trump. Because they hate him.

Nobody in the establishment would do something like this to a McConnel, a Schumer, a Bush, A Clinton, a Biden, a Romney.

Every time they do this to Trump they show the world.. "yup!! Trump's not in our club and never will be"

And that's powerful! that makes many including myself want him back in!!!

@sargentd: I think that's actually partly fair. If other politicians did the same thing, then yes, they should have been investigated for it.

Still, these aren't frivolous charges that "he had documents at his house". The indictment goes into a ton of detail about (a) Trump sharing these documents with people who didn't have security clearance, and more importantly (b) Trump intentionally lying to investigators, and lying to his own attorneys, while actively trying to hide as much evidence as possible.

If the indictment is accurate (and I'm confident it is), then Trump recklessly mishandled extremely sensitive documents, and flagrantly tried to disrupt the return of those documents. Whatever your political view is, those actions can't go unpunished. If others have done the same, then go after them too - but that doesn't mean this investigation is invalid.

The difference between what Biden and Pence did is that they returned documents when they were found. They didn't have subpoenas they ignored, I don't think anyone even knew the documents were missing. Had trump just returned everything then that would have been the end of it. But he willfully kept the material. And as of now, we have no one coming forward to say any other politician was showing off and bragging about classified documents.

As to classification status, there is a clear process that must be gone through and the president has to do so as well. He can't just decide something is declassified and have merit.

If it were anyone else, he'd be in a cell already. Recently, authorities wasted no time with the guy who leaked documents on to that Discord server. Donald still gets to run around even though he's an enormous security risk. So, he's still being handled with kid gloves.

That said, it's good that charges are being brought. This absolutely cannot go unpunished. Safeguarding classified intelligence is vital to national security for obvious reasons. Donald didn't care. He stole highly classified documents, showed them to people who didn't have the clearance, and outright refused to return them to the proper authorities. That behavior lands you in serious trouble in the government. It further shows that he has no business leading anything.

Had Donald just returned the documents when asked, we wouldn't be here. There would have been no investigation that uncovered his wrongdoing and he would have been able to continue coasting on, grifting money out of his usual suckers. But he got too bold and must have felt untouchable.

This is a WITCH HUNT, and I believe that because Trump said so!

Current special counsel Jack Smith, on the other hand — he’s bad news. I know this because Trump has said repeatedly that Smith’s investigation is a witch hunt, and I’ve never known Trump to lie about anything.

Keep in mind, in 2016, Trump said: “I’m going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. No one will be above the law.”

So after he said that, you expect me to believe he didn’t protect classified information? Just because, according to the indictment, there’s a recording of him holding a classified document in his office at his club in Bedminster, New Jersey, and saying to two staff members and an interviewer: “See, as president I could have declassified it. … Now I can’t, you know, but this is still a secret.”

Winners of Trump indictment: The former president and Joe Biden. DeSantis? Not so much.

You call that “damning evidence,” I call it, “What about Hunter Biden’s laptop?”

Putting Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton and Hunter Biden in prison? Now THAT makes sense!

Honestly read the whole article .

@horgen: Saw that this AM.

@LJS9502_basic: also, when former presidents do retain documents after leaving office, they're kept at presidential libraries, and which are part of the National Archives And Records Administration, but Trump didn't set up his own presidenrial library, he just took them like they were his own and acted like "well, everybody takes their documents with them". NARA keeps custody of the records he claims other presidents kept, presidents don't get to keep them when they leave office.

@sargentd: Why are you still trying to make excuses for this criminal? Have some respect for yourself. Sheesh.

Optimistically, perhaps naively, I don't think they'd make these charges if they didn't have something substantial against him. I think this is the beginning of the end. Hopefully not just for him, but his whole crooked family and inner circle.

I think this is more about preventing a criminal from winning a popularity contest as opposed to getting a democrat to win via abuse of powers.

Tomayto, tomahto, I know...but it's a distinct difference in my opinion.

The cynic in me says the GOP has their system rigged, would it be so bad of the Democrats did, too? I don't really feel that way but it's a thought...

@Planeforger: if the libs illegally convict Donald J Trump he will get elected from jail and pardon himself bc truth hurts but many people love how Donald J Trump help the country and cares about the country and Trump 2024 is the best way for the country and to end Ukrain War, end debt, stop drugs and terrorists coming in the country, build the economy and jobs. the court case is distracting every body and costing lot of money and government time proving the point to defund FBI and do real work.

I'd like to think he's just trolling and doesn't actually believe any of it. Then again, we live in strange times.

I’m not so sure.

What’s remarkable to me is he was showing these documents to unauthorized people saying, ”isn’t that incredible?”, like a 12 year old who found his dad’s gun and is showing it to his friends to impress. I’ve always found his tweets to be infantile in nature, but that right there demonstrates a galling absence of deeper seated emotional and psychological development; absolutely no concept or degree of respect, gravitas or reverence to the broader responsibility that was vested in him or the ramifications exposing these secrets incurs to the greater. Our national secrets are merely relegated to means to inflate his sense of importance and narcissism, who cares about anything else?

The man is an absolute loon to be regarding our national secrets like this. AND THEY HAVE HIM ON TAPE!!! This unparalleled idiot did this all on his own.

Christ. Regardless to whether one hates or loves Trump, I don’t see how anyone who can claim themselves to care for America could even conceive of allowing this man access to our intelligence and highest seat of power ever again after this. He shouldn’t even be considered. Yet 10s of millions and the nigh entirety of the GOP are still blindly, irreversibly loyal and calling for civil war. Unreal.